> Are you saying any eyewitness accounts of aliens should be assumed to
> be false?

> Nightfox

In the Bible they're called angels and demons. They don't need
spacecraft to travel. They have interdimensional access.

Demons like to fool people. The accounts may be real, though inaccurate
about the source.


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Re: Angels and demons
By: Jcurtis to NIGHTFOX on Wed May 21 2025 01:56 pm

>> Are you saying any eyewitness accounts of aliens should be assumed to
>> be false?

Jc> In the Bible they're called angels and demons. They don't need spacecraft
Jc> to travel. They have interdimensional access.

Jc> Demons like to fool people. The accounts may be real, though inaccurate
Jc> about the source.

I don't think we should assume angels & demons from the bible and extraterrestrials are the same thing..

Nightfox

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> I don't think we should assume angels & demons from the bible and
> extraterrestrials are the same thing..

> Nightfox

In the Bible, God tells us what we need to know. No mention of aliens in
spacecraft.

Demons are real though.

Mark 5:1-20.


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> In the Bible, God tells us what we need to know. No mention of aliens in
> spacecraft.

> Demons are real though.


There's a lot that the bible doesn't mention. The bible doesn't mention
automobiles - does that mean they aren't real?

Nightfox

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> There's a lot that the bible doesn't mention. The bible doesn't
> mention automobiles

How do you know, have you read it all? Few do.


> does that mean they aren't real?

Mankind survived thousands of years without cars. Jesus didn't need one
to change the world.


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Re: Angels and demons
By: Jcurtis to NIGHTFOX on Wed May 21 2025 10:43 pm

>> There's a lot that the bible doesn't mention. The bible doesn't
>> mention automobiles

Jc> How do you know, have you read it all? Few do.

I haven't, but I think it's safe to say the bible didn't specifically mention automobiles, computers, the internet, and other things we have from today..

>> does that mean they aren't real?

Jc> Mankind survived thousands of years without cars. Jesus didn't need one to
Jc> change the world.

True, and that's aside the point.

Nightfox

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> Jc> Mankind survived thousands of years without cars. Jesus didn't need one t
> Jc> change the world.

> True, and that's aside the point.

There are no aliens. But there are demons who like to fool people.


* SLMR 2.1a *

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> I think it's safe to say the bible didn't specifically mention
> automobiles, computers, the internet, and other things we have from
> today..

The Bible is prophetic. That means God can see the future. What we have
today is powerless against His judgment. Forseen and foretold.


* SLMR 2.1a *

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-=> Jcurtis wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

> Jc> Mankind survived thousands of years without cars. Jesus didn't need one
t
> Jc> change the world.

> True, and that's aside the point.

Jc> There are no aliens. But there are demons who like to fool people.

Wow, the Koolaid is strong in this one.



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-=> Jcurtis wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

Jc> @MSGID: <682F6FB3.14079.dove-rel@vert.synchro.net>
Jc> @REPLY: <682F5293.10008.dove_dove-rel@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
> I think it's safe to say the bible didn't specifically mention
> automobiles, computers, the internet, and other things we have from
> today..

Jc> The Bible is prophetic. That means God can see the future. What we have
Jc> today is powerless against His judgment. Forseen and foretold.

How do you reconcile us having free with with God being able to see into the
future?

Ive read and heard many interpretations but I'm wondering about yours. If we
truly can change our ways, then the future is not determined until we make our
choice, and therefore God cannot know. If God knows our choice, then we have
no
choice, and from where come responsibility?
e

... BoraxMan
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Re: Re: Angels and demons
By: Boraxman to Jcurtis on Fri May 23 2025 07:57 am

Bo> Ive read and heard many interpretations but I'm wondering about yours. If
Bo> we truly can change our ways, then the future is not determined until we
Bo> make our choice, and therefore God cannot know. If God knows our choice,
Bo> then we have no
Bo> choice, and from where come responsibility? e

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" - Rush, "Freewill"

Nightfox

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-=> Nightfox wrote to Jcurtis <=-

Ni> Re: Angels and demons
Ni> By: Jcurtis to NIGHTFOX on Wed May 21 2025 01:56 pm

>> Are you saying any eyewitness accounts of aliens should be assumed to
>> be false?

Jc> In the Bible they're called angels and demons. They don't need spacecraft
Jc> to travel. They have interdimensional access.

Jc> Demons like to fool people. The accounts may be real, though inaccurate
Jc> about the source.

Ni> I don't think we should assume angels & demons from the bible and
Ni> extraterrestrials are the same thing..

What other explanation? Creatures that 'evolved differently?'
This assumes you have the worldview that man evolved and
wasn't created...



... If you don't know how climb stairs, there is a step by step guide
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-=> Gamgee wrote to Jcurtis <=-

-=> Jcurtis wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

> Jc> Mankind survived thousands of years without cars. Jesus didn't need one
Ga> t
> Jc> change the world.

> True, and that's aside the point.

Jc> There are no aliens. But there are demons who like to fool people.

Ga> Wow, the Koolaid is strong in this one.

I may not see eye to eye with Jcurtis on everything, but I
agree with this point too. There is no proof that they
come from another planet, but they do come from 'not on
this earth.'



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-=> Boraxman wrote to Jcurtis <=-

Jc> The Bible is prophetic. That means God can see the future. What we have
Jc> today is powerless against His judgment. Forseen and foretold.

Bo> How do you reconcile us having free with with God being able to see
Bo> into the future?

Bo> Ive read and heard many interpretations but I'm wondering about yours.
Bo> If we truly can change our ways, then the future is not determined
Bo> until we make our choice, and therefore God cannot know. If God knows
Bo> our choice, then we have no
Bo> choice, and from where come responsibility?

You sound like my son. :-) He calls it the illusion of choice.

Personally, I see it as God is outside of time, space and
matter. Therefore He is the same yesterday, today and
tomorrow.

You and I don't know what will happen tomorrow, nor what
decisions we will make, but He does. Does this mean we
don't have a choice? Not at all! From our perspective,
we haven't made the choice yet. But from His perspective,
it's already happened.

So if it's 'already happened' how can it change? It can't.
So how can it be a choice? Because TO US it hasn't been
made yet.

Foreknowledge is NOT the say as predestination. If God
DECIDED for us, we would have no choice. But He doesn't
decide for us, but He does KNOW what we are going to
choose.


... Does fuzzy logic tickle?
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Re: Re: Angels and demons
By: jimmylogan to Nightfox on Fri May 23 2025 11:33 am

Ni>> I don't think we should assume angels & demons from the bible and
Ni>> extraterrestrials are the same thing..

ji> What other explanation? Creatures that 'evolved differently?' This assumes
ji> you have the worldview that man evolved and wasn't created...

I just don't know why we'd assume that extraterrestrials are angels & demons. I mean, we humans aren't angels & demons. Why would beings from another planet be?

And if you believe in evolution, naturally they'd have evolved differently on another planet. Or if you believe in creation, they'd be another one of God's creations.

Nightfox

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> Jc> The Bible is prophetic. That means God can see the future.

> How do you reconcile us having free with with God being able to see into the
> future?

Prophecy guides us to life. We are not puppets. Maybe it bothers
atheists but I don't see a problem.


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Re: Re: Angels and demons
By: Jcurtis to BORAXMAN on Fri May 23 2025 02:39 pm

> > Jc> The Bible is prophetic. That means God can see the future.
>
> > How do you reconcile us having free with with God being able to see into t
> > future?
>
> Prophecy guides us to life. We are not puppets. Maybe it bothers
> atheists but I don't see a problem.
>

I'm not particularly bothered by it. Just trying to understands someones moral
framework and how they understand the implications of what they are saying.

If God KNEW that Adam and Eve would disobey, and it could not have been
otherwise, I find it immoral to still place blame on us and our evil.
Especially since God made us and the universe, and is omnipotent. This circle
doesn't square.



But this is why I don't believe, and to me, the Old Testament is just a
collection of Jewish history and myths and allegories and stories.

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-=> jimmylogan wrote to Boraxman <=-

ji> @MSGID: <6830D001.10017.dove_dove-rel@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
ji> @REPLY: <682FA3D5.8143.dove-rel@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
-=> Boraxman wrote to Jcurtis <=-

Jc> The Bible is prophetic. That means God can see the future. What we have
Jc> today is powerless against His judgment. Forseen and foretold.

Bo> How do you reconcile us having free with with God being able to see
Bo> into the future?

Bo> Ive read and heard many interpretations but I'm wondering about yours.
Bo> If we truly can change our ways, then the future is not determined
Bo> until we make our choice, and therefore God cannot know. If God knows
Bo> our choice, then we have no
Bo> choice, and from where come responsibility?

ji> You sound like my son. :-) He calls it the illusion of choice.

ji> Personally, I see it as God is outside of time, space and
ji> matter. Therefore He is the same yesterday, today and
ji> tomorrow.

ji> You and I don't know what will happen tomorrow, nor what
ji> decisions we will make, but He does. Does this mean we
ji> don't have a choice? Not at all! From our perspective,
ji> we haven't made the choice yet. But from His perspective,
ji> it's already happened.

ji> So if it's 'already happened' how can it change? It can't.
ji> So how can it be a choice? Because TO US it hasn't been
ji> made yet.

ji> Foreknowledge is NOT the say as predestination. If God
ji> DECIDED for us, we would have no choice. But He doesn't
ji> decide for us, but He does KNOW what we are going to
ji> choose.

This is a problem that is discussed in physics as well, whether the
universe is deterministic and whether a deternistic universe allows
free will.


Foreknowledge does mean that your choice is set, before it is made,
before it is considered. If I know that you are going to eat Corn
Flakes for breakfast on the 30th of January, 2027, then it removes the
possibility of you making any decision which does not result in you
eating those Corn Flakes. Foreknowledge of every event, removes every
possibility. There is only one possibility, the future that is known.

It still is reasonable to act as if we have choices, after all, our
choices are influenced by what happens to us, but this creates a bit
of a conundrum. If we indeed only have one path, who set that path?

For us mere mortals, we can attribute responsibility to each other,
because there is not other candidate. But if a Deity was the first
Prime Mover, then responsibility lies there. Then we have
predestination.

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-=> jimmylogan wrote to Gamgee <=-

> Jc> Mankind survived thousands of years without cars. Jesus didn't need one
> Jc> to change the world.

> True, and that's aside the point.

Jc> There are no aliens. But there are demons who like to fool people.

Ga> Wow, the Koolaid is strong in this one.

ji> I may not see eye to eye with Jcurtis on everything, but I
ji> agree with this point too. There is no proof that they
ji> come from another planet, but they do come from 'not on
ji> this earth.'

More mumbo-jumbo word salad garbage.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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> God KNEW that Adam and Eve would disobey

Atheist misconception.


> I find it immoral to still place blame on us and our evil
> this is why I don't believe

Atheism will never stop evil. God will though. As prophesied.


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-=> Jcurtis wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

Jc> @MSGID: <6832174F.14093.dove-rel@vert.synchro.net>
Jc> @REPLY: <6831370D.8153.dove-rel@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
> God KNEW that Adam and Eve would disobey

Jc> Atheist misconception.


> I find it immoral to still place blame on us and our evil
> this is why I don't believe

Jc> Atheism will never stop evil. God will though. As prophesied.

People have been saying that for centuries now...

Pardon my skepticism!

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Re: Re: Angels and demons
By: Jcurtis to BORAXMAN on Sat May 24 2025 12:00 pm

>> I find it immoral to still place blame on us and our evil this is why I
>> don't believe

Jc> Atheism will never stop evil. God will though. As prophesied.

He's had thousands of years. God is either incompetent (he's been unable to stop evil), or malevolent (unwilling to stop evil).

Oden on the other hand never said he would save the human race from evil. He just said he'd get rid of the frost giants.


I don't see any frost giants, do you?

...Ambition is the last refuge of the failure.

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Re: Re: Angels and demons
By: Boraxman to jimmylogan on Sat May 24 2025 11:21 am

Bo> Foreknowledge does mean that your choice is set, before it is made, before
Bo> it is considered. If I know that you are going to eat Corn Flakes for
Bo> breakfast on the 30th of January, 2027, then it removes the possibility of
Bo> you making any decision which does not result in you eating those Corn
Bo> Flakes. Foreknowledge of every event, removes every possibility. There
Bo> is only one possibility, the future that is known.

I've had times where I've felt an eerie deja-vu feeling where the current moment seemed familiar to me and I had been able to predict something that was about to happen in the next moment (not just a guess, but with a feeling of certainty like I knew it). I've heard that's not an unusual phenomenon. If there is something to that, maybe it is some sort of foreknowledge..

Nightfox

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