So, I do follow some of the Twitter users for different Microsoft products
and serives: Visual Studio Code, .NET, and Channel 9.

Since .NET Core, ASP.NET Core, and Powershell Core is open source, they have
been having a lot of tweets around running .NET Core and ASP.NET Core apps on
Linux.

That and the fact that the next relase of SQL Server is going to run on Linux,
and the fact it is now possible have GNU/Linux utilities with Windows
Subsystems for Linux on Windows 10, it seems to me that Microsoft is making
great strides to allow the possibility to mix and match platforms now.

How do you feel, as developers or those who are interested in being developers,
about this movement toward mixed platforms? Do you think it is a good thing, or
a bad thing? Do you there there is a lot of potential for Microsdt actually
succeeding in allowing this mix and match? Do you think developers and system
anaylsts has been welcoming of this change?

Thoughts?

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

---
þ Synchronet þ KK4QBN BBS - (706)422-9538 - kk4qbn.synchro.net, Chatsworth GA US

-=> jagossel wrote to All <=-

ja> @VIA: VERT/KK4QBN
ja> @TZ: 412c
ja> So, I do follow some of the Twitter users for different Microsoft
ja> products and serives: Visual Studio Code, .NET, and Channel 9.

ja> Since .NET Core, ASP.NET Core, and Powershell Core is open source, they
ja> have been having a lot of tweets around running .NET Core and ASP.NET
ja> Core apps on Linux.

ja> That and the fact that the next relase of SQL Server is going to run on
ja> Linux, and the fact it is now possible have GNU/Linux utilities with
ja> Windows Subsystems for Linux on Windows 10, it seems to me that
ja> Microsoft is making great strides to allow the possibility to mix and
ja> match platforms now.

ja> How do you feel, as developers or those who are interested in being
ja> developers, about this movement toward mixed platforms? Do you think it
ja> is a good thing, or a bad thing? Do you there there is a lot of
ja> potential for Microsdt actually succeeding in allowing this mix and
ja> match? Do you think developers and system anaylsts has been welcoming
ja> of this change?

ja> Thoughts?

ja> -jag
ja> Code it, script it, automate it!

I'm neutral. I will work the tools they give me. But, I really feel that
Microsoft is making moves to exit the OS business and get to SaaS. It would
not surprise.

I will say that right now, paying attention to the IT World and watching the
politics behind it is quite interesting. Lots of things are moving.

Jay

... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Jazzy_J to jagossel on Sun Jan 29 2017 06:53 am

> I'm neutral. I will work the tools they give me. But, I really feel that
> Microsoft is making moves to exit the OS business and get to SaaS. It would
> not surprise.

I heard about them wanting to leave operating system business and focus more in
Azure. It makes sense in two aspects: (1) more and more businesses (seems to)
are moving to using cloud services, and (2) hearing that Windows 10 will be the
last major release and just continuing to improve on it.

There is a rumor going around that there could be a possibility that Windows
could be open source, but I heard no official confirmation. It would seem to be
the case when they made .NET Core, MSBuild, ASP.NET Core, and Powershell Core
all open source. I guess there could be some truth to that, and one could say
that Microsoft could open up Windows, but again, I saw nothing official about
it.

I guess only time will tell.

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

---
þ Synchronet þ KK4QBN BBS - (706)422-9538 - kk4qbn.synchro.net, Chatsworth GA US

> Since .NET Core, ASP.NET Core, and Powershell Core is open source, they have
> been having a lot of tweets around running .NET Core and ASP.NET Core apps on
> Linux.

> That and the fact that the next relase of SQL Server is going to run on
> Linux, and the fact it is now possible have GNU/Linux utilities with Windows
> Subsystems for Linux on Windows 10, it seems to me that Microsoft is making
> great strides to allow the possibility to mix and match platforms now.

> How do you feel, as developers or those who are interested in being
> developers, about this movement toward mixed platforms? Do you think it is a
> good thing, or a bad thing? Do you there there is a lot of potential for
> Microsdt actually succeeding in allowing this mix and match? Do you think
> developers and system anaylsts has been welcoming of this change?

I feel like this is a good thing. Linux seems to be getting more and more
mature and popular over time, so it's good to see it being embraced by more
companies, particularly big ones.

However, I'm not totally sure I trust Microsoft. I'm not sure if Microsoft
really just wants to support Linux or if they have some other intentions. I'm
wondering if they really believe it's in their best interest to support Linux
in order to continue selling software, which may well be the case. If that's
true, then I wonder if that means Windows sales are lacking these days? I've
certainly seen people moving away from Windows due to the changes starting with
Windows 8.1, and speculation about Microsoft going to a subscription model for
Windows.

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

> I heard about them wanting to leave operating system business and focus more
> in Azure. It makes sense in two aspects: (1) more and more businesses (seems
> to) are moving to using cloud services, and (2) hearing that Windows 10 will
> be the last major release and just continuing to improve on it.

> There is a rumor going around that there could be a possibility that Windows
> could be open source, but I heard no official confirmation. It would seem to
> be the case when they made .NET Core, MSBuild, ASP.NET Core, and Powershell
> Core all open source. I guess there could be some truth to that, and one
> could say that Microsoft could open up Windows, but again, I saw nothing
> official about it.

I haven't heard about Windows possibly going open-source, but I've heard
speculation that Microsoft might go to a subscription model for Windows. If
that's the case, I imagine many (more) people would want to switch to another
platform. I would most likely want to use something else rather than pay a
recurring fee to use my own computer. Windows is my main OS, but I've been
liking Mint Linux these days..

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Nightfox to jagossel on Mon Feb 13 2017 01:00 pm

> I haven't heard about Windows possibly going open-source, but I've heard
> speculation that Microsoft might go to a subscription model for Windows. If
> that's the case, I imagine many (more) people would want to switch to anothe
r
> platform. I would most likely want to use something else rather than pay a
> recurring fee to use my own computer. Windows is my main OS, but I've been
> liking Mint Linux these days..

I have heard the same subacription-based Windows rumor as well. I am OK with it
as it implies renting a license for Windows and constantly getting the latest
updates. If Microsoft does go down the route if doing a subscription, I will
have to see how much they are going to charge. My family already has a few
software subscriptions: Office 365, Adobe Photoshop (wife only), and Adobe PDF
(wife only). If the price is too high and if they will only do one user per
subscription, then I will only pay for it on my wife's computer.

Me, personally, I will continue to use Antergos, GIMP, LibreOffice, and CUPS
PDF.
-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

---
þ Synchronet þ KK4QBN BBS - (706)422-9538 - kk4qbn.synchro.net, Chatsworth GA US

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: jagossel to Nightfox on Tue Feb 14 2017 09:36 am

ja> I have heard the same subacription-based Windows rumor as well. I am OK
ja> with it as it implies renting a license for Windows and constantly getting
ja> the latest updates. If Microsoft does go down the route if doing a
ja> subscription, I will have to see how much they are going to charge. My

I just don't like the idea of paying a subscription to use an operating system.
The OS is a key part of a computer, so an OS subscription would mean that if I
miss a payment, then I can't use my computer at all. After spending money to
buy a computer, I'd still like to be able to at least use it for something.

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

-=> Nightfox wrote to jagossel <=-

Ni> @VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
Ni> @TZ: 41e0
Ni> Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
Ni> By: jagossel to Nightfox on Tue Feb 14 2017 09:36 am

ja> I have heard the same subacription-based Windows rumor as well. I am OK
ja> with it as it implies renting a license for Windows and constantly getting
ja> the latest updates. If Microsoft does go down the route if doing a
ja> subscription, I will have to see how much they are going to charge. My

Ni> I just don't like the idea of paying a subscription to use an operating
Ni> system. The OS is a key part of a computer, so an OS subscription would
Ni> mean that if I miss a payment, then I can't use my computer at all.
Ni> After spending money to buy a computer, I'd still like to be able to at
Ni> least use it for something.

Ni> Nightfox

Ni> ---
Ni> þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

I can almost guaruntee that Microsoft will nag you to death with notifications
if they decide to go to a subscription-based OS. They are darn good of it now.
Disabling notifications is a bear in Windows 10.

With that said, I use Microsoft products sparingly in my home. My kids use
*nix, wife is MS bound. There are a few game I have to dual-boot into Win7 to
play. Jay's Cafe' is run on Win7 (for simplicity). But all remaining internet
services are *nix-based.


__ __
__ / /__ _______ __ __ __ / /
/ // / _ `/_ /_ // // / / // /
\___/\_,_//__/__/\_, /__\___/
/___/___/

... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ JAYSCAFE - jayscafe.jayctheriot.com

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Nightfox to jagossel on Mon Feb 20 2017 01:36 pm

> Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
> By: jagossel to Nightfox on Tue Feb 14 2017 09:36 am
>
> ja> I have heard the same subacription-based Windows rumor as well. I am OK
> ja> with it as it implies renting a license for Windows and constantly gett
> ja> the latest updates. If Microsoft does go down the route if doing a
> ja> subscription, I will have to see how much they are going to charge. My
>
> I just don't like the idea of paying a subscription to use an operating syst
> The OS is a key part of a computer, so an OS subscription would mean that if
> miss a payment, then I can't use my computer at all. After spending money t
> buy a computer, I'd still like to be able to at least use it for something.
>
> Nightfox
>
I am glad I have Linux to fall back on, Microsoft is getting way to greedy.
I still use windows 7 on my Desktop but run all my servers on Ubuntu Linux.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com - DOORS - Files -Dove-Net

> I am glad I have Linux to fall back on, Microsoft is getting way to greedy.
> I still use windows 7 on my Desktop but run all my servers on Ubuntu Linux.

Yes, I'm glad I have a familiarity with Linux. If Microsoft starts charging a
subscription fee for Windows, I think I'll end up switching to Linux. Mint
Linux is currently my favorite distro, but I also like OpenSUSE (also back when
it was just SuSE).

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Nightfox to Denn Gray on Fri Mar 17 2017 12:38 pm

> > I am glad I have Linux to fall back on, Microsoft is getting way to
> > greedy.
> > I still use windows 7 on my Desktop but run all my servers on Ubuntu
> > Linux.

> Yes, I'm glad I have a familiarity with Linux. If Microsoft starts charging
> a subscription fee for Windows, I think I'll end up switching to Linux.
> Mint Linux is currently my favorite distro, but I also like OpenSUSE (also
> back when it was just SuSE).



i'll just keep stealing it. i have several legit copies of windows but i
prefer to steal it just because it's easier to install.

windows is a more polished product and linux is not for everyone.

i prefer to just use linux as a sever OS. the oses i use for my desktops are
windows. linux is still a mess in some respects.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Mro to Nightfox on Sat Mar 18 2017 12:25 am

> i prefer to just use linux as a sever OS. the oses i use for my desktops are
> windows. linux is still a mess in some respects.
> i prefer to just use linux as a sever OS. the oses i use for my desktops are
> windows. linux is still a mess in some respects.

I run most of my servers on Ubuntu 14.04, however I do run my Plex home server
on a windows thin client PC and I run my BBS on that same PC.
I prefer Linux for servers in most cases.
I have tried many Linux Distro's but have settled on Ubuntu due to its
stability and support.
/a

---
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-=> Mro wrote to Nightfox <=-

Mr> windows is a more polished product and linux is not for everyone.

Mr> i prefer to just use linux as a sever OS. the oses i use for my
Mr> desktops are windows. linux is still a mess in some respects.

As much as I love Linux, I tend to do the same as you for pragmatic reasons -
Windows still works better for me on the desktop, but Linux is hard to beat as
a server.


... No Purchase Required. Details in package.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

-=> Denn Gray wrote to Mro <=-

DG> I run most of my servers on Ubuntu 14.04, however I do run my Plex
DG> home server on a windows thin client PC and I run my BBS on that same
DG> PC. I prefer Linux for servers in most cases.

I use Debian or Raspian these days on machines acting as servers. Have heard a
lot of good things about Ubuntu, but like the way Debian is managed for the
most part. I also tend not to run X, so have a strong preference for command
line or curses based tools.

DG> I have tried many Linux Distro's but have settled on Ubuntu due to its
DG> stability and support.

I used to run Red Hat/CentOS, but after CentOS 6 made some major changes that
broke some software I was using at the time, I switched to Debian and have been
happy since.


... Whosoever diggeth a pit shall falleth therein.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Mro to Nightfox on Sat Mar 18 2017 12:25 am

Mr> i'll just keep stealing it. i have several legit copies of windows but i
Mr> prefer to steal it just because it's easier to install.

Mr> windows is a more polished product and linux is not for everyone.

Mr> i prefer to just use linux as a sever OS. the oses i use for my desktops
Mr> are windows. linux is still a mess in some respects.

Windows has been doing online activation since XP though.. I'm not sure I'd
want to risk it, particularly if I want to install Windows updates.

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

I'm not really interested in Microsoft languages, atleast as of now so for me I
do not really care and therefore having Microsoft products available on
GNU/Linux or not for me means nothing.

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

---
þ Synchronet þ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Nightfox to Mro on Sat Mar 18 2017 09:22 pm

> Mr> i prefer to just use linux as a sever OS. the oses i use for my
> Mr> desktops are windows. linux is still a mess in some respects.

> Windows has been doing online activation since XP though.. I'm not sure I'd
> want to risk it, particularly if I want to install Windows updates.



they have always defeated it, since xp. also you can manually install updates.
i keep updates turned off and install what i want to install. i dont trust that
shit.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Vk> I use Debian or Raspian these days on machines acting as servers. Have
Vk> heard a lot of good things about Ubuntu, but like the way Debian is
Vk> managed for the most part. I also tend not to run X, so have a strong
Vk> preference for command line or curses based tools.

If you are not using X, then I don't think there is really much of a benefit
of running ubuntu. I installed it on one machine for a while. It was a more
"bells-and-whistles," IMHO, for the X or desktop user. Cli utilities may
have been somewhat newer versions as, IIRC, they move stuff up to "stable"
quicker.

I eventually replaced ubuntu with debian on the machine in question. More
stable.

Honestly, I have used linux as my primary desktop OS for about 17 years now.
I used to keep a Windows 98SE machine up-to-date because I sometimes needed
it for things like Office or gaming. I currently have an XP partition on my
personal machine but I have probably not used it in at least 3 years. I am
pretty much able to do everything I want on the debian boxes.

I could even move my DOS-based BBS, currently running under OS/2 for VMODEM,
over to the debian box. I have tested it, am just too lazy to finish the
job. :)

So, unless you have some proprietary software that only runs on Windows, I am
not real sure these days what it is that a linux desktop cannot do that
Windows can.




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Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Mro to Nightfox on Sun Mar 19 2017 12:34:29

Mr> they have always defeated it, since xp. also you can manually install
Mr> updates. i keep updates turned off and install what i want to install. i
Mr> dont trust that shit.

You will find either one difficult to do in Windows 10. You cannot turn off
updates, nor can you stop it from downloading automatically and installing. I
have not checked yet on the other machine which runs the insider Edition, but
the upcoming Creator edition is supposed to give you some control over that.


Have a nice day.

... Federal Employment Principle: Confusion creates jobs.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Lion's Den BBS

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to Vk3jed <=-

DW> If you are not using X, then I don't think there is really much of a
DW> benefit of running ubuntu. I installed it on one machine for a while.
DW> It was a more "bells-and-whistles," IMHO, for the X or desktop user.
DW> Cli utilities may have been somewhat newer versions as, IIRC, they move
DW> stuff up to "stable" quicker.

Yeah, when I run servers, I simply don't have a need for X. I do pretty much
everything on the command line. And if I did happen to need X, I can always
fire it up with "startx" or use VNC.

DW> I eventually replaced ubuntu with debian on the machine in question.
DW> More stable.

DW> Honestly, I have used linux as my primary desktop OS for about 17 years
DW> now. I used to keep a Windows 98SE machine up-to-date because I
DW> sometimes needed it for things like Office or gaming. I currently have
DW> an XP partition on my personal machine but I have probably not used it
DW> in at least 3 years. I am pretty much able to do everything I want on
DW> the debian boxes.

I use a wide variety of applications, and some (a decreasing minority) are
Windows only. Also, I just fund some of the maintenance of appl under Linux a
bit more "clunky" than Windows. Probably just a preference thing.

DW> I could even move my DOS-based BBS, currently running under OS/2 for
DW> VMODEM, over to the debian box. I have tested it, am just too lazy to
DW> finish the job. :)

Indeed, Linux can run DOS software quite well. :)

DW> So, unless you have some proprietary software that only runs on
DW> Windows, I am not real sure these days what it is that a linux desktop
DW> cannot do that Windows can.

I do have a bit of that, mostly in the "free as in beer" category.


... A student who changes the course of history is probably taking an exam.
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On 3/20/2017 1:30 AM, Vk3jed -> Dumas Walker wrote:

DW>> So, unless you have some proprietary software that only runs on
DW>> Windows, I am not real sure these days what it is that a linux desktop
DW>> cannot do that Windows can.

V> I do have a bit of that, mostly in the "free as in beer" category.

Since when is beer free? I wanna know where you hang out! :)

--
Regards,
Nick

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Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Joe Delahaye to Mro on Sun Mar 19 2017 08:03 pm


> Mr> they have always defeated it, since xp. also you can manually install
> Mr> updates. i keep updates turned off and install what i want to install.
> Mr> i dont trust that shit.

> You will find either one difficult to do in Windows 10. You cannot turn off
> updates, nor can you stop it from downloading automatically and installing.
> I have not checked yet on the other machine which runs the insider Edition,
> but the upcoming Creator edition is supposed to give you some control over
> that.


i only had windows 10 on a laptop that my girlfriend got from bestbuy and it
took a dive after a few updates. i'm still running win7 enterprise. i dont
feel i'm missing out.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

-=> Nicholas Boel wrote to Vk3jed <=-

V> I do have a bit of that, mostly in the "free as in beer" category.

NB> Since when is beer free? I wanna know where you hang out! :)

When it's someone else's! :D


... Objects in taglines are closer than they appear.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Mro to Joe Delahaye on Mon Mar 20 2017 08:36 pm

Mr> i only had windows 10 on a laptop that my girlfriend got from bestbuy and
Mr> it took a dive after a few updates. i'm still running win7 enterprise. i
Mr> dont feel i'm missing out.

I'm running 10 on a desktop and laptop now, and have another laptop running
Lubuntu. I put Windows 7 in a Virtualbox VM (the newer versions support Aero
3d, which is nice)

After running Windows 7 for a while again, I miss it. it feels so much less
cluttered than 10, and does everything I need.

---
þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Mro to Joe Delahaye on Mon Mar 20 2017 08:36 pm

> Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
> By: Joe Delahaye to Mro on Sun Mar 19 2017 08:03 pm
>
>
> > Mr> they have always defeated it, since xp. also you can manually instal
l
> > Mr> updates. i keep updates turned off and install what i want to instal
l.
> > Mr> i dont trust that shit.
>
> > You will find either one difficult to do in Windows 10. You cannot turn
off
> > updates, nor can you stop it from downloading automatically and installin
g.
> > I have not checked yet on the other machine which runs the insider Editio
n,
> > but the upcoming Creator edition is supposed to give you some control ove
r
> > that.
>
>
> i only had windows 10 on a laptop that my girlfriend got from bestbuy and i
t
> took a dive after a few updates. i'm still running win7 enterprise. i dont
> feel i'm missing out.

It's really average Widnows 10. Nothing new besides telemetry.

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

---
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Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Mro to Joe Delahaye on Mon Mar 20 2017 20:36:16

> Mr>> they have always defeated it, since xp. also you can manually
> Mr>> install updates. i keep updates turned off and install what i want
> Mr>> to install. i dont trust that shit.

>> You will find either one difficult to do in Windows 10. You cannot
>> turn off updates, nor can you stop it from downloading automatically
>> and installing. I have not checked yet on the other machine which runs
>> the insider Edition, but the upcoming Creator edition is supposed to
>> give you some control over that.


Mr> i only had windows 10 on a laptop that my girlfriend got from bestbuy and
Mr> it took a dive after a few updates. i'm still running win7 enterprise. i
Mr> dont feel i'm missing out.

Did it come installed with 10, or was it updated? Some updates from 7 had some
problems. You will be missing out in about 2 years I think, when it is no
longer supported.


Have a nice day.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Lion's Den BBS

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Joe Delahaye to Mro on Tue Mar 21 2017 01:41 pm

> Did it come installed with 10, or was it updated? Some updates from 7 had
> some problems. You will be missing out in about 2 years I think, when it is
> no longer supported.


it was an update from windows 8 i believe. the daughter who i call the
destroyer of all electronics dropped a ton of water on the keyboard and brought
it to me asking if i could fix it.

she was using the couch as a desk and then put her waterbottle on the cushion
and ofcourse it dumped on the laptop.
she went through 5 iphones too.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

For me. Linux is way better. Fedora all the way.

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

---
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Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Mro to Joe Delahaye on Tue Mar 21 2017 21:25:10

>> Did it come installed with 10, or was it updated? Some updates from 7
>> had some problems. You will be missing out in about 2 years I think,
>> when it is no longer supported.


Mr> it was an update from windows 8 i believe. the daughter who i call the
Mr> destroyer of all electronics dropped a ton of water on the keyboard and
Mr> brought it to me asking if i could fix it.

Mr> she was using the couch as a desk and then put her waterbottle on the
Mr> cushion and ofcourse it dumped on the laptop.
Mr> she went through 5 iphones too.

Sounds like my grandaughter. She used to go thru cell phones like crazy as
well. Had two stolen out of her purse as well. Now at age 27 she is much more
careful <G>


Have a nice day.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Lion's Den BBS

Re: Mixed Microsoft/Linux Pla
By: Deavmi to Mro on Wed Mar 22 2017 02:03 am

> For me. Linux is way better. Fedora all the way.

> +==========+



why
---
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