So, I'm a little late getting this info, but apparently Oracle is going to
start charging for updates to the Java platform. I was just curious if any of
you use Java at your jobs, and how this is affecting you.

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Chai, to All...

Ch> So, I'm a little late getting this info, but apparently Oracle is going
Ch> to start charging for updates to the Java platform. I was just curious
Ch> if any of you use Java at your jobs, and how this is affecting you.

Oracle seems to be heading down the wrong direction, if thst were the case.
How is that going to work? You have to pay just to use the Java VM or pay
to get the SDK? I would imagine the latter.

For crying out loud, at least Microsoft went in the proper direction and has
been working on opening up their .NET platorm by making their CLR and
MSBUILD open source, and starting the .NET Core as an open source project.
Among other things that Microsoft bas changed over the recent years after
Bill Gates retired.

The software vendor I work for does use Java for their portal software, and
we use it combine and minify our JavaScript files for our front end. I
would imagine that will hurt us, but probably not stop us. Hopefully, the
open source implementation, OpenJDK, will fill in the gap.

In my opinion, Oracle is going to shoot themselves in the foot by charging
for their platform while Microsoft is opening up theirs.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

... <<< In monochrome where available >>>
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Re: Java
By: Chai to All on Wed Nov 14 2018 07:56 pm

Ch> So, I'm a little late getting this info, but apparently Oracle is going to
Ch> start charging for updates to the Java platform. I was just curious if any
Ch> of you use Java at your jobs, and how this is affecting you.

Wat? I haven't heard of this. As someone else asked, I'm curious if that's
for the runtime or if it's for the JDK.

Nightfox

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Nightfox, to Chai...

Ni> Re: Java
Ni> By: Chai to All on Wed Nov 14 2018 07:56 pm

Ch> So, I'm a little late getting this info, but apparently Oracle is going to
Ch> start charging for updates to the Java platform. I was just curious if any
Ch> of you use Java at your jobs, and how this is affecting you.

Ni> Wat? I haven't heard of this. As someone else asked, I'm curious if
Ni> that's for the runtime or if it's for the JDK.

It appears that this is all rumors at the moment. Here is the article that
mentions it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-starts-to-audit-java-customers-2016-12


And here is the follow up article where Oracle denies it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-says-it-is-not-ramping-up-a-audits-of-java-2016-12


Still, considering that not all of the JRE is free is a terrible move to
make; regardless if it is corporate or home users.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: Re: Java
By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Nov 15 2018 02:36 pm

Ja> Still, considering that not all of the JRE is free is a terrible move to
Ja> make; regardless if it is corporate or home users.

I'm wondering if this will affect Android app developers (since Android apps
typically use Java) - though Android doesn't use the standard Java runtime..

Nightfox

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Re: Java
By: Chai to All on Wed Nov 14 2018 07:56 pm

> So, I'm a little late getting this info, but apparently Oracle is going to
> start charging for updates to the Java platform. I was just curious if any
> of you use Java at your jobs, and how this is affecting you.

My company is a Java shop. We use OpenJDK for this very reason.


The Dawn of Demise BBS (tdod.org)

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-=> Nightfox wrote to Chai <=-

Ch> So, I'm a little late getting this info, but apparently Oracle is going to
Ch> start charging for updates to the Java platform. I was just curious if any

Ni> Wat? I haven't heard of this. As someone else asked, I'm curious if
Ni> that's for the runtime or if it's for the JDK.

I got the notification when I updated my Java VM. I do have the SDK
nstalled.
Personal licenses are still free until the year 2020. Business's will have
to obtain a commercial license. I thought maybe at first, it might only
apply to Java SE version 8, as that was what I had installed.
But, I came across this:

https://www.quora.com/Is-Oracle-going-to-charge-for-Java-from-2019


and

https://goo.gl/Ubz6Jq


I've read that they will try to make the process for OpenJDK interchangeable,
so companies can still go that route, lacking support and enterprise
management tools.

I'll do further research to see exactly what this implies.
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Re: Re: Java
By: Jagossel to Chai on Thu Nov 15 2018 09:07 am

Ch>> So, I'm a little late getting this info, but apparently Oracle is
Ch>> going to start charging for updates to the Java platform. I was just
Ch>> curious if any of you use Java at your jobs, and how this is affecting
Ch>> you.

Sounds like Java's dead and they want some sucker customers to pay for a
license before it goes off into oblivion.

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-=> Jagossel wrote to Chai <=-

Ja> Oracle seems to be heading down the wrong direction, if thst were the
Ja> case. How is that going to work? You have to pay just to use the Java
Ja> VM or pay to get the SDK? I would imagine the latter.

I've done some digging around. Updates to the Oracle version, support and
enterprise tools will require a commercial license for non-personal use.
However, they will be linking the builds with the OpenJDK, so that there
is little to no technical difference. So, I suppose there is a roadmap
for business' to simply use the OpenJDK version without support, if they
want to avoid Oracle subscriptions. It only affects the Oracle JDK.

Ja> For crying out loud, at least Microsoft went in the proper direction
Ja> and has been working on opening up their .NET platorm by making their
Ja> CLR and MSBUILD open source, and starting the .NET Core as an open
Ja> source project. Among other things that Microsoft bas changed over the
Ja> recent years after Bill Gates retired.

That's what the communities are saying.

Ja> The software vendor I work for does use Java for their portal software,
Ja> and we use it combine and minify our JavaScript files for our front
Ja> end. I would imagine that will hurt us, but probably not stop us.
Ja> Hopefully, the open source implementation, OpenJDK, will fill in the
Ja> gap.

If they will be keeping the technologies in sync, it sounds like it should.


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-=> Jagossel wrote to Nightfox <=-

Ja> It appears that this is all rumors at the moment. Here is the article
Ja> that mentions it:

If it's all rumors, great. The notice I received came as part of an update
from the Java updater. My understanding of Java licensing leaves something
to be desired, however.

I also found this..

-------------------------------------
InfoWorld
-------------------------------------
What happens if you don’t renew

If users do not renew a subscription, they lose rights to any commercial
software downloaded during the subscription. Access to Oracle Premier Support
also ends. Oracle recommends that those choosing not to renew transition to
OpenJDK binaries from the company, offered under the GPL, before their
subscription ends. Doing so will let users keep running applications
uninterrupted.
--------------------------------------
Ref: https://goo.gl/vt6Yts



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Re: Re: Java
By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Thu Nov 15 2018 12:30 pm

> I'm wondering if this will affect Android app developers (since Android apps
> typically use Java) - though Android doesn't use the standard Java runtime..

From what I understand, it only affects the Oracle Java SDK. All of the other
SDK providers are unaffected. So, depending on what variant Google is using,
I'm guessing this will have little impact on them.

Amazon even has a Java SDK, which I did not know. I'm learning, slowly.

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Re: Re: Java
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Jagossel on Thu Nov 15 2018 05:53 pm

PF> Sounds like Java's dead and they want some sucker customers to pay for a
PF> license before it goes off into oblivion.

I thought I've heard Java is used in many different types of devices.. One
major place Java is used is on Android phones & tablets - though it uses a
different runtime other than the standard Java runtime. I suppose you wouldn't
necessarily have to use Oracle's Java compiler for Android apps either.

Nightfox

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Chai, to Nightfox...

> I'm wondering if this will affect Android app developers (since Android apps
> typically use Java) - though Android doesn't use the standard Java runtime..

Ch> From what I understand, it only affects the Oracle Java SDK. All of
Ch> the other SDK providers are unaffected. So, depending on what variant
Ch> Google is using, I'm guessing this will have little impact on them.

Ch> Amazon even has a Java SDK, which I did not know. I'm learning,
Ch> slowly.

Having to look into this a little bit myself, I am not too worried about
it. To me, it just looks like Oracle JRE SE will just have a different
pricing model to it, and Oracle is just jumping onto that "subscription
pricing model" bandwagon that Adobe and Microsoft Office has adopted.

So, it seems like Oracle JRE SE will continue to be free for personal use;
Oracle is now offering a different way to have a commercial license paid
for (moving from a one-time payment to a per-user, per-month); and OpenJDK
will continue to be free (both libre and gratis), if not, there will
probably be a fork of OpenJDK that will be (like CentOS from RHEL).

Still though, this just doesn't seem like a good business practice for the
comsumers of Oracle JRE SE. It just comes across, to me, that Oracle is
trying to collect some form of "royality fees".

We'll see how this will turn out.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

... My monitor has two different grays of shade.
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Oracle dun fucked.

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

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