On 2024-01-22, nelgin <EOTLBBS!nelgin@vert.synchro.net> wrote:
>
> Re: Taking a community colleg
> By: Digital Man to Nopants on Sat Jan 20 2024 13:53:44
>
> > Yeah, C is roughly a subset of C++. The languages have diverged and
> > re-converged a bit over the years (and versions of their standards), but
> > yeah, almost any experienced C++ programmer can program in C, though they
> > often groan about it. :-)
>
> I think the thing that put me off learning C is the 1001 different compile options for gcc. If you're going to be working on more portable open source projects then there's a whole subset of stuff you problem need to know like the autoconf tools and the like.
>
> The code will run faster but I'm happy just to rip off a bit of perl and be done with it. no compilation, no makes files.
>
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You can be fine with ANSI C, The C programming language 2nd ED and tcc for
most software from https://codemadness.org
, git://bitreich.org and https://2f30.org

These are tons of small minimalist tools for anything. I love sacc for gopher
and catpoint/pointtools. And hurl it's my default http/s and gopher downloader
with a little script to download files per arg with 'basename'.

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Re: Re: Taking a community colleg
By: anthk to All on Sat Mar 22 2025 02:32:11

> Yeah, C is roughly a subset of C++.

Not quite. C came out in '72 while C++ came out in '85 and is an extension of
C.

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Re: C Origins
By: Mortar to All on Tue Mar 25 2025 02:11 pm

>> Yeah, C is roughly a subset of C++.

Mo> Not quite. C came out in '72 while C++ came out in '85 and is an
Mo> extension of C.

I don't think the time of release of the languages matters. I've sometimes seen people say C++ is a superset of C, so I think it can be said that C is a subset of C++.

I've heard initially, C++ was implemented as CFront, which was a literal extension of C, but C++ has evolved to be its own stand-alone implementation.

Nightfox

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Re: C Origins
By: Mortar to All on Tue Mar 25 2025 02:11 pm

> Re: Re: Taking a community colleg
> By: anthk to All on Sat Mar 22 2025 02:32:11
>
> > Yeah, C is roughly a subset of C++.
>
> Not quite. C came out in '72 while C++ came out in '85 and is an extension
> of C.

you reply to the person instead of typing all. you're using the fseditor.
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Re: C Origins
By: MRO to Mortar on Tue Mar 25 2025 09:38 pm

>> Not quite. C came out in '72 while C++ came out in '85 and is an extension
>> of C.

MR> you reply to the person instead of typing all. you're using the fseditor.

I don't think their editor matters. I'm pretty sure the person you're directing the message to is prompted by Synchronet before even running the editor.

Nightfox

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> So far, it's all console input (using std::cin) and output (using std::cout),
> sic math, algorithms, and now looping constructs. There's been a lot of focus
> stream formatting (using of <iomanip>) which in my experience is not somethin
> used much in most C++ projects, but whatever. I am learning *some* things ther
> that I hadn't used before. But I have to keep reminding myself: I'm not here t
> teach this class (or the professor) or even to get the highest score ever, jus
> to learn what's good and bad about how C++ is being taught in schools these da
> . And towards that goal, it's going good!

Sounds like the prof maybe needs to take a lesson from you and take a
refresher course. ;)


* SLMR 2.1a * If it's Tourist Season, howcum we can't shoot 'em, Pa?

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Re: Taking a community colleg
By: Dumas Walker to DIGITAL MAN on Wed Jan 17 2024 09:42 am

> Sounds like the prof maybe needs to take a lesson from you and take a
> refresher course. ;)

:-)
--
digital man (rob)

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Re: Taking a community colleg
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jan 16 2024 04:51 pm

> I'm thinking of making a video series on programming in C

I'd be interested to know what fields or modern applications there are for C
these days (besides vehicle automation apparently :)).

Have you checked out Dave's Garage? He's done some programming youtubes, so
may give you some ideas on how to keep the interest level up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0zxIfJJLAY&t=430s


Interested to hear how this progresses.



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Re: Taking a community colleg
By: Nopants to Digital Man on Wed Jan 17 2024 10:22 am

> Re: Taking a community colleg
> By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jan 16 2024 04:51 pm
>
> > I'm thinking of making a video series on programming in C
>
> I'd be interested to know what fields or modern applications there are for C
> these days (besides vehicle automation apparently :)).

Most Linux (kernel and driver) work is in C. Android (and several other embedded OSes) run on the Linux kernel.

> Have you checked out Dave's Garage? He's done some programming youtubes, so
> may give you some ideas on how to keep the interest level up.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0zxIfJJLAY&t=430s


Oh yeah. Read his book too (which was a bit of an epiphany for me and my family). Dave's great.

> Interested to hear how this progresses.

Will keep everyone here abreast of my progress.
--
digital man (rob)

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Re: Taking a community colleg
By: Digital Man to Nopants on Wed Jan 17 2024 01:38 pm

> > I'd be interested to know what fields or modern applications there are
> > for C these days (besides vehicle automation apparently :)).
>
> Most Linux (kernel and driver) work is in C. Android (and several other
> embedded OSes) run on the Linux kernel.

All Apple products (e.g. iOS devices, watches, etc.) have a significant amount of compiled C code in them too.

Oh yeah, and you know all the smart bulbs, switches, thermostats, doorlocks, appliances, etc. in your house? They're most definitely running some code (there most critical coe) that is written/maintained in C.
--
digital man (rob)

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-=> Digital Man wrote to Nopants <=-

DM> Most Linux (kernel and driver) work is in C. Android (and several other
DM> embedded OSes) run on the Linux kernel.

Walking through the MINIX code is an interesting lesson. It's designed
as an educational OS, the code is pretty vanilla C, and it's easy to
read. I'd run a little web site on it just because I could a couple of
jobs ago. It made for a fun experiment, having a web site running on a
286.




... What is the simplest solution?
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Re: Taking a community colleg
By: Digital Man to Nopants on Wed Jan 17 2024 02:40 pm

> Oh yeah, and you know all the smart bulbs, switches, thermostats, doorlocks,
> appliances, etc. in your house? They're most definitely running some code
> (there most critical coe) that is written/maintained in C.

I didn't realize that the ESP32 devices I messed with a few years ago was C++.
That was a fun way to learn. I need to get back into that. The stuff I built
so far 'just works' so I haven't touched it again. I guess that explains why
it is used for these embedded devices.

Will C++ knowledge translate to C?

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Re: Taking a community colleg
By: Nopants to Digital Man on Sat Jan 20 2024 09:36 am

> Will C++ knowledge translate to C?

Yeah, C is roughly a subset of C++. The languages have diverged and re-converged a bit over the years (and versions of their standards), but yeah, almost any experienced C++ programmer can program in C, though they often groan about it. :-)
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #24:
David St. Hubbins: You're a haughty one, saucy Jack.
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Re: Taking a community colleg
By: Digital Man to Nopants on Sat Jan 20 2024 13:53:44

> Yeah, C is roughly a subset of C++. The languages have diverged and
> re-converged a bit over the years (and versions of their standards), but
> yeah, almost any experienced C++ programmer can program in C, though they
> often groan about it. :-)

I think the thing that put me off learning C is the 1001 different compile options for gcc. If you're going to be working on more portable open source projects then there's a whole subset of stuff you problem need to know like the autoconf tools and the like.

The code will run faster but I'm happy just to rip off a bit of perl and be done with it. no compilation, no makes files.

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