So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as a
Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity, and
I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy what
a plot twist...

I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed by
the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but feel
a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out of
me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask
questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in his
voice which really makes me feel stupid.

Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the
thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not one
document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest
assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which is
annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the
fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a totally
unsure and frustrated new employee.

Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am very
frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily I'm
not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, but
man is it hard!

Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their code?
I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would
have been productive so much faster!

---
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Re: Those first dev jobs blues
By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36

Ze> Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their
Ze> code? I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code,
Ze> I would have been productive so much faster!

you think they would, it would be more productive... but on the other hand.. if
it is chinese company, there have been issues with motorola paying to have DMR
developed for radios, etc and then then TYT or Pofung hires a couple of their
developers, along with as much code segment they can bring with them to
implement into their own stuff. so it's possible the company wants to stay as
vague and segmented as possible with their code.

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

---
* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA

Re: Those first dev jobs blues
By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36

> So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as a
> Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity,
and
> I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy w
hat
> a plot twist...
>
> I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed b
y
> the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but fe
el
> a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out
of
> me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask
> questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in
his
> voice which really makes me feel stupid.
>
> Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the
> thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not
one
> document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest
> assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which i
s
> annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the
> fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a tota
lly
> unsure and frustrated new employee.
>
> Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am very
> frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily
I'm
> not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, bu
t
> man is it hard!
>
> Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their cod
e?
> I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would
> have been productive so much faster!
> .[0m

Friend, hang in there. Among you still have the passion for it, that passion
is what should motivate you to stay and stick with it.

The more senior developers should have been more open to the newer developers
and shouldn't expect the newer developers to know everything up front. That is
one thing I struggle with myself, and greatly appreciate the more experienced
developers guiding me with the system. I have been at this same position for
over 8 years, and I still don't know the system thourghly.

I suspect that it is normal for software to not have comments to explain what
it is doing. There is a standard where I work: comments should only be used to
explain WHY the code is odd, not WHAT thr code is doing. The trade off here is
that the code should be, "self-documented", meaning that it should use more
meaningful names and does one thing only, should be easy to read and follow.

It sounds like there is a lot of pressure to get code out the door as quickly
as possible. This will lead to nasty cycles between new features followed by
critical issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, Where I work is
like that righr now: years of pressure to get new features done, leading to
enough unhappy customers question how we do things and logging a lot of criical
issues.

Hang in there, bud. But keep other opportunities open. :)

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

---
* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA

-=> Zet wrote to All <=-

Ze> So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as
Ze> a Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the
Ze> opportunity, and I was really looking forward to earning money for
Ze> doing what I love... Boy what a plot twist...

Sounds like a bit of a tough gig with some signs of poor company culture. Hang
in there, but worth keeping an eye open for greener pastures. I hope things
improve for you.

I think it is unreasonable for a company to expect you to know everything off
the bat. Every company and job requires some learning - even the non tech
related work I do these days requires some basic knowledge of the workplace and
where to find things I need, let alone something like software development.

I also find the lack of comments a bit worrying, because I've always seen
comments as valuable "in line" documentation, which help explain what the code
does.


... Remember the immortal words of Socrates: "I drank what?"
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Re: Re: Those first dev jobs blues
By: Vk3jed to Zet on Sat Jun 24 2017 17:22:00

Thanks a lot for the support guys! I really needed that!

The thing is just that this is my first dev job out of university, and it is
as far away from home (physically) as I possibly can be. I am also here on a
working permit, and if I lose that (which I will if I lose the job), I'll be
sent back home. So I think there is an understandable amount of pressure on me
to sort of... make this work. It doesn't really look like I would be losing the
job, but this is the sort of thing that is on my mind everytime that I get a
snarky answer or a disappointed look...

With regards to the other devs; I don't think that they are doing this on
purpose. The two guys I work with in a team have been working together for the
past 4 - 5 years, so I am sure that they can read each other's code and
immediately understand what is going on. They have obviously also worked on
this project for a long time and know exactly where everything is... I have
tried to tell them that I am a little overwhelmed, and then they do try to slow
down and explain as much as they can to me, but of course there is work to be
done and they can't just stop everything to explain it to some new guy...

All of this sounds super rational to me, but now the problem is that they keep
dropping hints that I am not contributing enough. I have only been in this job
for 6 weeks, and I honestly doubt that anyone would (directly out of university
and without any experience) just walk in and just take over.

I think the biggest issue is the fact that these guys have been working
together for too long, and lost touch with what it's like to be new and have an
inexperienced person in the team.

And documentation would have helped. That way I could have done more on my own
and independetly get to know the system...

Again, this is just me venting and trying to make myself feel better.

---
þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

Re: Re: Those first dev jobs blues
By: Zet to All on Tue Jun 27 2017 11:51 am


> With regards to the other devs; I don't think that they are doing this on
> purpose. The two guys I work with in a team have been working together for
> the past 4 - 5 years, so I am sure that they can read each other's code and
> immediately understand what is going on. They have obviously also worked on
> this project for a long time and know exactly where everything is... I have
> tried to tell them that I am a little overwhelmed, and then they do try to
> slow down and explain as much as they can to me, but of course there is work
> to be done and they can't just stop everything to explain it to some new
> guy...

> All of this sounds super rational to me, but now the problem is that they
> keep dropping hints that I am not contributing enough. I have only been in
> this job for 6 weeks, and I honestly doubt that anyone would (directly out
> of university and without any experience) just walk in and just take over.

> I think the biggest issue is the fact that these guys have been working
> together for too long, and lost touch with what it's like to be new and have
> an inexperienced person in the team.



today at work i sat at my desk and listened to the radio.
---
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Re: Those first dev jobs blues
By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 05:44 pm

> Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their
> code?

No, that is very unusual. In addition to comments, there should (normally) be
architecture and design documents, requirements documents, user documents, test
plans, etc. If you don't have these documents or comments in the code, it
sounds like a very unprofessional organization there.


digital man

Synchronet "Real Fact" #11:
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---
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Re: Those first dev jobs blues
By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 05:44 pm

Ze> I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed
Ze> by the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help
Ze> but feel a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates
Ze> the hell out of me too. He's been working on the system since the
Ze> beginning, and when I ask questions, he always answers it with this "how
Ze> don't you know that" tone in his voice which really makes me feel stupid.

There seems to be a lot of that out there.. It depends on the company, too.
Large companies, particularly high-tech companies that hire many software
developers, seem to have a higher chance of that happening. Software
developers seem to be an opinionated bunch. Many of them like their own way of
doing things and often question other developers' ways of doing things if
different from their own. And some may not understand that not everyone has
had the same training, so some might have a "how don't you know that" tone as
you've mentioned.

Ze> Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the
Ze> thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists
Ze> not one document describing how the system works or fits together. The
Ze> smallest assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually
Ze> developing, which is annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my
Ze> insecurity. Add to this the fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the
Ze> language, and you have a totally unsure and frustrated new employee.

I've also seen a lot of code that isn't well commented. It seems that many
software developers just aren't in the habit of commenting their code well..
It frustrates me too. And some will even encourage "self-documenting code". I
don't think that's always feasable.. Sometimes, the code doesn't make it
totally obvious what it's doing. Also, I think it's important to know not only
what the code is doing, but why. The *why* is a good thing to put in the
comments.
One thing that also surprised me is that some companies don't have much
documentation on the project in general. And when I was in college, we learned
about software design documents such as class diagrams, sequence diagrams,
etc. (UML), and it seems many software developers don't know about those, so of
course they aren't going to create such design documents..

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

On 2017-06-24 05:17 AM, jagossel wrote:
> Re: Those first dev jobs blues
> By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36
>
> > So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as a
> > Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity,
> and
> > I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy w
> hat
> > a plot twist...
> >
> > I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed b
> y
> > the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but fe
> el
> > a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out
> of
> > me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask
> > questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in
> his
> > voice which really makes me feel stupid.
> >
> > Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the
> > thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not
> one
> > document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest
> > assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which i
> s
> > annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the
> > fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a tota
> lly
> > unsure and frustrated new employee.
> >
> > Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am very
> > frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily
> I'm
> > not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, bu
> t
> > man is it hard!
> >
> > Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their cod
> e?
> > I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would
> > have been productive so much faster!
> > .[0m
>
> Friend, hang in there. Among you still have the passion for it, that passion
> is what should motivate you to stay and stick with it.
>
> The more senior developers should have been more open to the newer developers
> and shouldn't expect the newer developers to know everything up front. That is
> one thing I struggle with myself, and greatly appreciate the more experienced
> developers guiding me with the system. I have been at this same position for
> over 8 years, and I still don't know the system thourghly.
>
> I suspect that it is normal for software to not have comments to explain what
> it is doing. There is a standard where I work: comments should only be used to
> explain WHY the code is odd, not WHAT thr code is doing. The trade off here is
> that the code should be, "self-documented", meaning that it should use more
> meaningful names and does one thing only, should be easy to read and follow.
>
> It sounds like there is a lot of pressure to get code out the door as quickly
> as possible. This will lead to nasty cycles between new features followed by
> critical issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, Where I work is
> like that righr now: years of pressure to get new features done, leading to
> enough unhappy customers question how we do things and logging a lot of criical
> issues.
>
> Hang in there, bud. But keep other opportunities open. :)
>
> -jag
> Code it, script it, automate it!
>
So wise. So wise. :)

---
* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA