Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state capitol that
would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.

It would cover the damages that occur from the accidental or negligent use of
firearms. The bill is authored by Democratic Senator Nancy Skinner, who says it
models a new law approved this year by the City of San Jose. She says it is the
same idea as purchasing insurance for a vehicle. Lawmakers in the state of New
York are considering a similar law.

It is opposed by gun rights groups, like the Gun Owners of California. The
organization argues that no insurance companies will cover the misuse of
firearms and that it also infringes on Constitutional rights.

A second gun-related bill, authored by Democrat Marc Levine, would place a new
tax on firearm purchases, totaling around 10-percent. It would raise an
estimated $118-million that would be allocated for gun violence prevention
programs.


... If a sloth were to clap, it will always sound sarcastic.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
­ Synchronet ­ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Thumper to All on Fri Jun 17 2022 09:59 am

> Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state capitol
> that would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.

Okay. If this goes through, will this then permit any gun owner to use magazines that hold more than 10 rounds and/or purchase firearms that support magazines that hold more than 10?

I doubt it.

Brian Klauss <-> Ford Prefect
42bytes a Synchronet BBS =========> 42bytes.net

---
þ Synchronet þ 42bytes - 42bytes.net - Don't Panic!

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Thumper to All on Fri Jun 17 2022 09:59 am

> Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state capitol tha
> would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.
>
> It would cover the damages that occur from the accidental or negligent use o
> firearms. The bill is authored by Democratic Senator Nancy Skinner, who says
> models a new law approved this year by the City of San Jose. She says it is
> same idea as purchasing insurance for a vehicle. Lawmakers in the state of N
> York are considering a similar law.
>
> It is opposed by gun rights groups, like the Gun Owners of California. The
> organization argues that no insurance companies will cover the misuse of
> firearms and that it also infringes on Constitutional rights.
>
> A second gun-related bill, authored by Democrat Marc Levine, would place a n
> tax on firearm purchases, totaling around 10-percent. It would raise an
> estimated $118-million that would be allocated for gun violence prevention
> programs.
>
>
> ... If a sloth were to clap, it will always sound sarcastic.

Sounds like two new schemes to move the prices of firearms further from the
hands of regular citizens. Th einsurance policy is a punitive law, since not
having insurance would allow someone to sue your pants off, or raise your
rates until you legally cannot own a firearm.

Makes me wonder if a registry is also required in order to set rates based on
what you own? Who all has access to the registry?

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Ford Prefect to Thumper on Fri Jun 17 2022 01:26 pm

> Re: Re: Gun Insurance
> By: Thumper to All on Fri Jun 17 2022 09:59 am
>
> > Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state capitol
> > that would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.
>
> Okay. If this goes through, will this then permit any gun owner to use maga
>
> I doubt it.
>
> Brian Klauss <-> Ford Prefect
> 42bytes a Synchronet BBS =========> 42bytes.net
>

If it did allow magazines over 10 rounds, there may be a registry to
determine whether they are common to that model, or higher rates if they do
not fit flush or are considered "standard" for the firearm. Larger magazines
depending on the firearm. You may have to cover each mag under it's own polic
y. Imagine what a 3-gun or multi-gun competitor who uses 60 round
Shur-fire mags and owns several then several mags for their pistols and an
extended tube on their shotgun would have to pay?

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Thumper wrote to All <=-

Th> Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state
Th> capitol that would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.

Sounds like mandatory gun registration to me. (Most places only require that
you register hand guns. Long guns are usually exempt.)

That's the first step toward gun confiscation.


... ALL bikini clad women, proceed to move to California.
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-=> Moondog wrote to Thumper <=-

Mo> Sounds like two new schemes to move the prices of firearms further from
Mo> the hands of regular citizens.

It wouldn't be the first time they tried that.

"We aren't taking away anyone's right. But if you want to own gun-type-X, you
have to get a license from the state, which costs prohibitively high and no one
can afford."


... I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dr. What to Moondog on Sun Jun 19 2022 09:58 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to Thumper <=-
>
> Mo> Sounds like two new schemes to move the prices of firearms further from
> Mo> the hands of regular citizens.
>
> It wouldn't be the first time they tried that.
>
> "We aren't taking away anyone's right. But if you want to own gun-type-X, y
> have to get a license from the state, which costs prohibitively high and no
> can afford."
>
>
> ... I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing.

And while they are doing it, they keep on telling people it's a state's
right, not an individual right.

Illinois already has what they call an FOID (firearms ownership ID) and you
can't even touch a gun in a gun shop, let alone buy one. Imagine having to
call your insurance company to get rates, then find out they're going to
charge extra because you're looking at a Mossberg 500 with a synthetic stock
and phosphate finish versus the model with the blued finish and wood hardare.
Your rates will be different based on "scary" features.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Thumper to All on Fri Jun 17 2022 09:59 am

> A second gun-related bill, authored by Democrat Marc Levine, would place a new
> tax on firearm purchases, totaling around 10-percent. It would raise an
> estimated $118-million that would be allocated for gun violence prevention
> programs.

So gun owners will pay a tax whose money will be used to campaign against gun owners.

Awesome. Not.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

> And while they are doing it, they keep on telling people it's a state's
> right, not an individual right.

Which it is not because it is covered in the Bill of Rights, where "state's
rights" are the ones not covered in the Constitution or its amendments, per
the 10th Amendment.

> Illinois already has what they call an FOID (firearms ownership ID) and you
> can't even touch a gun in a gun shop, let alone buy one. Imagine having to
> call your insurance company to get rates, then find out they're going to
> charge extra because you're looking at a Mossberg 500 with a synthetic stock
> and phosphate finish versus the model with the blued finish and wood hardare.
> Your rates will be different based on "scary" features.

No doubt. :(


* SLMR 2.1a * "Don't touch me...I'll wound your inner child!" - Beavis

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

On 6/17/22 12:20, Moondog wrote:
>
> Makes me wonder if a registry is also required in order to set
> rates based on what you own? Who all has access to the registry?

I think it would be a defacto registry even if via the insurance
companies sharing information, then sharing with data harvestors, then
the govt just buys the data from them, like the FBI and other agencies
already do.

Probably worse than a registry, because they also have a lot of
correlated data.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Tue Jun 21 2022 01:21 pm

> On 6/17/22 12:20, Moondog wrote:
> >
> > Makes me wonder if a registry is also required in order to set
> > rates based on what you own? Who all has access to the registry?
>
> I think it would be a defacto registry even if via the insurance
> companies sharing information, then sharing with data harvestors, then
> the govt just buys the data from them, like the FBI and other agencies
> already do.
>
> Probably worse than a registry, because they also have a lot of
> correlated data.
> --
> Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>

The worst thing about all this is the deception of why it is being done.
Michigan has a handgun registry. For several years, you had to pick up a
ppurchase permit to buy a handgun, then within ten days of purchase, take it
to your local police department (or county building if live in a township)
and have a "safety" inspection done. At this time the model and serial
number was registered as a means to track it if it was stolen. I went with a
friend when he got his Ruger Blackhawk .44 inspected, and all the police
chief did was fondle the gun, ask him why he "needed" a cannon, then offered
to buy it from him because he liked it too.

Going through the county was a crazier adventure. A buddy bought a Tec-22 in
the mid 1990's, and the "inspection clerk" knew very little about firearms.
He gave her the pistol unloaded with no magazine. he had two magazines for
it - a ten round Ruger rotary mag for a 10-22, and a Ramline 25 round magazine
. She freaked when she saw the 25 round magazine, then called another
officer over to look at my friend's "machine pistol." The other officer
chilled her ass down and said everything was fine. The paperwork was done,
and we left with no problems.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-

Tr> Probably worse than a registry, because they also have a lot of
Tr> correlated data.

Better, if you need to compile a list of AR-15 owners who make between 45K
and 65K, rent an apartment and like furry porn, that is.


... Landru! Guide us!
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

> >
> > Makes me wonder if a registry is also required in order to set
> > rates based on what you own? Who all has access to the registry?

> I think it would be a defacto registry even if via the insurance
> companies sharing information, then sharing with data harvestors, then
> the govt just buys the data from them, like the FBI and other agencies
> already do.

> Probably worse than a registry, because they also have a lot of
> correlated data.

You are right, it would all likely be shared with data harvestors. People
could use your gun ownership to draw all sorts of profiles up about you.

Someone who frequents an echo on another network would say that this is
part of the choice you have to make and, if you don't want your data known
you should not have guns. They also believe that law abiding citizens
having guns is what makes law breaking persons use them.


* SLMR 2.1a * 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely small values of 5.

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to TRACKER1 on Thu Jun 23 2022 04:48 pm

> > >
> > > Makes me wonder if a registry is also required in order to set
> > > rates based on what you own? Who all has access to the registry?
>
> > I think it would be a defacto registry even if via the insurance
> > companies sharing information, then sharing with data harvestors, then
> > the govt just buys the data from them, like the FBI and other agencies
> > already do.
>
> > Probably worse than a registry, because they also have a lot of
> > correlated data.
>
> You are right, it would all likely be shared with data harvestors. People
> could use your gun ownership to draw all sorts of profiles up about you.
>
> Someone who frequents an echo on another network would say that this is
> part of the choice you have to make and, if you don't want your data known
> you should not have guns. They also believe that law abiding citizens
> having guns is what makes law breaking persons use them.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely small values of 5.
>

That's the same logic that says sprinkler systems and fire extinguishers are
installed to tempt arsonists.

Predators do not go after animals they fear.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Wed Jun 22 2022 07:56 am

> -=> Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-
>
> Tr> Probably worse than a registry, because they also have a lot of
> Tr> correlated data.
>
> Better, if you need to compile a list of AR-15 owners who make between 45K
> and 65K, rent an apartment and like furry porn, that is.
>
>
> ... Landru! Guide us!

Having the government knowing which doors to kick down when they turn against
the people is one thing. Imagine being treated like leper or be discriminated
because you own firearms? It may not be their business what you own as long
as it's legal and safe (or an indvidual right,) but some may show their
disapproval by raisng rates or making services unavailable to you. Vote with
your wallet only goes so far with some products.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

> > Someone who frequents an echo on another network would say that this is
> > part of the choice you have to make and, if you don't want your data known
> > you should not have guns. They also believe that law abiding citizens
> > having guns is what makes law breaking persons use them.
> >

> That's the same logic that says sprinkler systems and fire extinguishers are
> installed to tempt arsonists.

> Predators do not go after animals they fear.

Exactly. I may not have worded it exactly right. I think they believe
that law abiding citizens having guns means there are more guns out there
for law breaking persons to have access to (while breaking the law). Their
belief is that we should be willing to give up our guns, or at least have
ours all registered, tracked, and restricted (as to what we can own) so
that criminals cannot get their hands on them. <rollseyes>

I do agree that most law breaking persons are not going to try anything if
they think they might get shot. Many of them are not smart, but I don't
believe that most of them have a death wish.


* SLMR 2.1a * The number you have dailed...9-1-1...has been changed...

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Fri Jun 24 2022 05:10 pm

> > > Someone who frequents an echo on another network would say that this is
> > > part of the choice you have to make and, if you don't want your data kn
> > > you should not have guns. They also believe that law abiding citizens
> > > having guns is what makes law breaking persons use them.
> > >
>
> > That's the same logic that says sprinkler systems and fire extinguishers a
> > installed to tempt arsonists.
>
> > Predators do not go after animals they fear.
>
> Exactly. I may not have worded it exactly right. I think they believe
> that law abiding citizens having guns means there are more guns out there
> for law breaking persons to have access to (while breaking the law). Their
> belief is that we should be willing to give up our guns, or at least have
> ours all registered, tracked, and restricted (as to what we can own) so
> that criminals cannot get their hands on them. <rollseyes>
>
> I do agree that most law breaking persons are not going to try anything if
> they think they might get shot. Many of them are not smart, but I don't
> believe that most of them have a death wish.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * The number you have dailed...9-1-1...has been changed...
>

It can be a mixed bag. The other day someone was buying handguns for he and
his wife. Hios wife works in a marijuana dispensary and handles large sums
of cash, and was asking if open carry might be preferable over concealed
carry, which would take longer to get a permit.

I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room. You can
see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight. While it should
discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the biggest threat to take
out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody guessing. And polite.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sat Jun 25 2022 12:35 pm

> I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room. You can
> see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight. While it should
> discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the biggest threat to take
> out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody guessing. And polite.
>

The advantage of open carry is that it normalizes having a gun. If half the population carries
a gun but they are all concealed, then the population and politicians may perceive that gun
owners are a tiny minority (after all, nobody sees them anymore, therefore they must not
exist!)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Arelor to Moondog on Sun Jun 26 2022 10:58 am

> Re: Re: Gun Insurance
> By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sat Jun 25 2022 12:35 pm
>
> > I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room. You c
> > see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight. While it shoul
> > discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the biggest threat to t
> > out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody guessing. And polite.
> >
>
> The advantage of open carry is that it normalizes having a gun. If half the
> a gun but they are all concealed, then the population and politicians may pe
> owners are a tiny minority (after all, nobody sees them anymore, therefore t
> exist!)
>
> --
> gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
>

I agree on the concept, but not the execution. If everyone open carried, the
day you're caught alone without it would be the time you become a target.
Concealed carry keeps the bad guys guessing. The was a gas station robbery a
few years ago, and one of the customers standing in line was open carrying.
The line was cramped because the entry way was constricted,and the robber
singled him out and got in line behind him and held a knife to his back. He
had a retention holster, so the robber could not pull it out easily, however
the robber threatened him and he relased the retention button. Even if the
guy didn't have a knife or other weapon, they were in such enclosed space
that pulling the gun would've been hard without special gun retention and
close in training (which he didn't have.) Some open carry folks think a gun
is a magic talisman that wards away evil. It's knowing how to safely and
efficiently let out the smoke of the talisman that does the damage.


---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> DR. WHAT wrote to THUMPER <=-

DW> @VIA: DMINE
DW> @MSGID: <62AF2C20.2234.dove-firearms@dmine.net>
DW> @REPLY: <62ACB593.577.dove-firearms@wastelands-bbs.net>
-=> Thumper wrote to All <=-

Th> Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state
Th> capitol that would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.

DW> Sounds like mandatory gun registration to me. (Most places only
DW> require that you register hand guns. Long guns are usually exempt.)

DW> That's the first step toward gun confiscation.

There is no registration here in Tennessee...




... My wife accused me of being lazy. I told her I had done NOTHING!
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
þ wcQWK 8.0 ÷ Omicron Theta * Cordova, TN * winserver.org

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: JIMMY ANDERSON to DR. WHAT on Sun Jun 26 2022 01:51 pm

Hi, Jimmy... I think we might know one another in RL.

o
(O)
BeLLy

---
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: JIMMY ANDERSON to DR. WHAT on Sun Jun 26 2022 01:51 pm

> -=> DR. WHAT wrote to THUMPER <=-
>
> DW> @VIA: DMINE
> DW> @MSGID: <62AF2C20.2234.dove-firearms@dmine.net>
> DW> @REPLY: <62ACB593.577.dove-firearms@wastelands-bbs.net>
> -=> Thumper wrote to All <=-
>
> Th> Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state
> Th> capitol that would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.
>
> DW> Sounds like mandatory gun registration to me. (Most places only
> DW> require that you register hand guns. Long guns are usually exempt.)
>
> DW> That's the first step toward gun confiscation.
>
> There is no registration here in Tennessee...
>
>
That is why they try to sneak it in under the context of other laws. During
the drafting of the 1934 National Firearms act, a registration plan was part o
f the original language of the bill. This addition was based on how well
Germany was doing with their own registration programs.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Moondog wrote to Dumas Walker <=-


>
> Exactly. I may not have worded it exactly right. I think they believe
> that law abiding citizens having guns means there are more guns out there
> for law breaking persons to have access to (while breaking the law). Their
> belief is that we should be willing to give up our guns, or at least have
> ours all registered, tracked, and restricted (as to what we can own) so
> that criminals cannot get their hands on them. <rollseyes>
>
> I do agree that most law breaking persons are not going to try anything if
> they think they might get shot. Many of them are not smart, but I don't
> believe that most of them have a death wish.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * The number you have dailed...9-1-1...has been changed...
>

Mo> It can be a mixed bag. The other day someone was buying handguns for
Mo> he and his wife. Hios wife works in a marijuana dispensary and handles
Mo> large sums of cash, and was asking if open carry might be preferable
Mo> over concealed carry, which would take longer to get a permit.

Mo> I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room. You
Mo> can see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight. While it
Mo> should discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the biggest
Mo> threat to take out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody guessing.
Mo> And polite.

Mo> ---
Mo> = Synchronet = The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Criminals are cowards by nature. If they perceive even the slightest chance at
an armed repsonse, they'll back down. I open carry, mainly because concealed
carry is too slow, too uncomfortable and restricts my choice of options. I
prefer to have my SW 645, 1911 or PT-145 Pro (which I COULD carry concealed)
over any of my subcompact .380 or 9mm options any day. I carry .45 primary,
but backup with .380 or 9mm compacts. If I'm going into a place where open
carry is disallowed, I always have the backup.

Of course, I live in Wyoming. In Wyoming one must assume that at least 50% of
those around you are carrying, concealed or open. Hmmm... funny thing.. I
just realized.... I hear a lot fewer news stories regarding armed robbery here
in WY than I did when I lived in NY. Geee...... I wonder why?

... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

-=> Arelor wrote to Moondog <=-


Ar> The advantage of open carry is that it normalizes having a gun. If half
Ar> the population carries a gun but they are all concealed, then the
Ar> population and politicians may perceive that gun owners are a tiny
Ar> minority (after all, nobody sees them anymore, therefore they must not
Ar> exist!)

For me the primary benefit is ease of access and an increase in carry options.
Carrying concealed usally means you have to adjust at least one piece of
clothing to access the firearm, increasing the chance of a snag or a tangle or
some other obstruction. Also it is more difficult to comfortably carry a full
size pistol so one usually tends to resort to a compact or sub-compact.
Nothing wrong with using those for defense, but I prefer the option of using my
full size SW 645 or 1911 for defense. Hell, where I live I could openly carry
my 6" GP-100 and nobody would blink an eye except to ask how I like it!

Then again, I DO remember the day I saw a fellow carring a .454 Raging Bull in
an Uncle Mike's ballistic nylon holster. Having one of those bitches myself
and knowing what it's like to shoot, I'd have definitely opted for something
different.

... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

-=> Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-
>

Mo> I agree on the concept, but not the execution. If everyone open
Mo> carried, the day you're caught alone without it would be the time you
Mo> become a target. Concealed carry keeps the bad guys guessing. The was
Mo> a gas station robbery a few years ago, and one of the customers
Mo> standing in line was open carrying. The line was cramped because the
Mo> entry way was constricted,and the robber singled him out and got in
Mo> line behind him and held a knife to his back. He had a retention
Mo> holster, so the robber could not pull it out easily, however the robber
Mo> threatened him and he relased the retention button. Even if the guy
Mo> didn't have a knife or other weapon, they were in such enclosed space
Mo> that pulling the gun would've been hard without special gun retention
Mo> and close in training (which he didn't have.) Some open carry folks
Mo> think a gun is a magic talisman that wards away evil. It's knowing how
Mo> to safely and efficiently let out the smoke of the talisman that does
Mo> the damage.


I prefer open carry, and I realize that it's not some sort of "talisamn" that
wards off evil. Believe me. When I'm in public, my head is on a swivel and I
know what everyone around me is up to, and I do not allow myself to be in a
compromised position.

As I say... Carry. I don't care how, why, or what. Just carry. If you
prefer concealed carry, that's up to you, but I sure as hell expect your backup
if I get in a bad situation because I prefer to carry in the open!

... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

-=> JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

JA> @MSGID: <62BB157D.3580.dove-gun@vert.synchro.net>
-=> DR. WHAT wrote to THUMPER <=-
arms@wastelands-bbs.net>
-=> Thumper wrote to All <=-

Th> Sacramento, CA ­ A bill is up for debate at the California state
Th> capitol that would mandate gun owners purchase liability insurance.

DW> Sounds like mandatory gun registration to me. (Most places only
DW> require that you register hand guns. Long guns are usually exempt.)

DW> That's the first step toward gun confiscation.

JA> There is no registration here in Tennessee...

Nor here in the free state of Wyoming. One of the primary reasons for my
moving here from New York and thereby increasing my collection considerably.
Suffice it to say, if I were to move back to New York my collection would make
me a felon many times over.

... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

-=> Moondog wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-


>
Mo> That is why they try to sneak it in under the context of other laws.
Mo> During the drafting of the 1934 National Firearms act, a registration
Mo> plan was part o f the original language of the bill. This addition was
Mo> based on how well Germany was doing with their own registration
Mo> programs.

Reason enough to make resisting ANY gun registration legislation important.
Remember, we are celebrating Independence Day because and ARMED populace
refused to disarm themselves. You never know when a SECOND Independence Day
may be necessary.
... There are 10 kinds of people. Those who get binary and those who don't.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Weatherman to Arelor on Mon Jul 04 2022 01:39 am

> -=> Arelor wrote to Moondog <=-
>
>
> Ar> The advantage of open carry is that it normalizes having a gun. If half
> Ar> the population carries a gun but they are all concealed, then the
> Ar> population and politicians may perceive that gun owners are a tiny
> Ar> minority (after all, nobody sees them anymore, therefore they must not
> Ar> exist!)
>
> For me the primary benefit is ease of access and an increase in carry option
> Carrying concealed usally means you have to adjust at least one piece of
> clothing to access the firearm, increasing the chance of a snag or a tangle
> some other obstruction. Also it is more difficult to comfortably carry a fu
> size pistol so one usually tends to resort to a compact or sub-compact.
> Nothing wrong with using those for defense, but I prefer the option of using
> full size SW 645 or 1911 for defense. Hell, where I live I could openly car
> my 6" GP-100 and nobody would blink an eye except to ask how I like it!
>
> Then again, I DO remember the day I saw a fellow carring a .454 Raging Bull
> an Uncle Mike's ballistic nylon holster. Having one of those bitches myself
> and knowing what it's like to shoot, I'd have definitely opted for something
> different.
>
> ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.

I've seen shirts and coats that were designed to be concealed carry friendly.
The shirts would have snaps that would allow you to push through a slot in
the garment to reach a firearm, and the jackets were designed the same way.

Concealed carry requires learning technique and gaining muscle memory to draw
smoothly.

I couldn't imagine carrying a Raging Bull for anything other than intimidation.
Too much barrel if you end up on the ground in a fight, and have to pull the
gun and stuff it in someone's side to get them off you. With a standard or
compact pistol, that type of action would be much easier to pull off, like
jamming a fist in their side. A person can cover 21 feet in less than 3
seconds. If a person's body language doesn't telegraph any danger, chances
are you may have to draw while wrestling a person.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Mon Jul 04 2022 01:45 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-
> >
>
> Mo> I agree on the concept, but not the execution. If everyone open
> Mo> carried, the day you're caught alone without it would be the time you
> Mo> become a target. Concealed carry keeps the bad guys guessing. The was
> Mo> a gas station robbery a few years ago, and one of the customers
> Mo> standing in line was open carrying. The line was cramped because the
> Mo> entry way was constricted,and the robber singled him out and got in
> Mo> line behind him and held a knife to his back. He had a retention
> Mo> holster, so the robber could not pull it out easily, however the robber
> Mo> threatened him and he relased the retention button. Even if the guy
> Mo> didn't have a knife or other weapon, they were in such enclosed space
> Mo> that pulling the gun would've been hard without special gun retention
> Mo> and close in training (which he didn't have.) Some open carry folks
> Mo> think a gun is a magic talisman that wards away evil. It's knowing how
> Mo> to safely and efficiently let out the smoke of the talisman that does
> Mo> the damage.
>
>
> I prefer open carry, and I realize that it's not some sort of "talisamn" tha
> wards off evil. Believe me. When I'm in public, my head is on a swivel an
> know what everyone around me is up to, and I do not allow myself to be in a
> compromised position.
>
> As I say... Carry. I don't care how, why, or what. Just carry. If you
> prefer concealed carry, that's up to you, but I sure as hell expect your bac
> if I get in a bad situation because I prefer to carry in the open!
>
> ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.

I emphasize training before any form of carrying. As mentioned, if you carry
a gun as a talisman and cannot keep a hold on it, you might as well give it
to the bad guy. i agree about sitautional awareness. Do not set yourself up
to fail and find yourself being funneled into a crowd of people or tight
space where it may be hard to draw or fight back.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Mon Jul 04 2022 01:50 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-
>
>
> >
> Mo> That is why they try to sneak it in under the context of other laws.
> Mo> During the drafting of the 1934 National Firearms act, a registration
> Mo> plan was part o f the original language of the bill. This addition was
> Mo> based on how well Germany was doing with their own registration
> Mo> programs.
>
> Reason enough to make resisting ANY gun registration legislation important.
> Remember, we are celebrating Independence Day because and ARMED populace
> refused to disarm themselves. You never know when a SECOND Independence Day
> may be necessary.
> ... There are 10 kinds of people. Those who get binary and those who don't.

When my liberal cousin recently told me we don't need guns because we have
police and military, I painted a scenario based on January 6th where a former
president refuses to step down, and has a combination of federal forces and a
private army of loyalists under their command. It could've happened 200
years ago, and it could happen today.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Mon Jul 04 2022 01:32 am

We> Of course, I live in Wyoming. In Wyoming one must assume that at least 50%
We> of those around you are carrying, concealed or open. Hmmm... funny thing..
We> I just realized.... I hear a lot fewer news stories regarding armed
We> robbery here in WY than I did when I lived in NY. Geee...... I wonder why?

Because there are far fewer people?
Because the average income has gone up quickly in WY over the last 10 years, and cost of living has stayed quite low?
Because Wyoming has a very low poverty rate compared to NY? so people don't have to resort to extreme measures to try and feed themselves or their families?

I'm not saying all armed robbery cases are due to poverty, but the statistics show that a disproportionately large number of people who commit these crimes are often in terrible financial situations.

For what it's worth, in 2017 Wyoming had the 8th highest number of gun deaths per capita, while New York was 49th. Illinois was 30th. These numbers, of course, include suicide, which is why Hawaii probably has the lowest number of gun deaths, as apparently everyone there is happy as fuck.


Correlation does not imply causation.

DaiTengu

... Extinction is the ultimate fate of all species.

---
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On 6/24/22 14:10, Dumas Walker wrote:
>
> Exactly. I may not have worded it exactly right. I think they
> believe that law abiding citizens having guns means there are more
> guns out there for law breaking persons to have access to
> (whilebreaking the law). Their belief is that we should be willing
> to give up our guns, or at least have ours all registered, tracked,
> and restricted (as to what we can own) so that criminals cannot get
> their hands on them. <rollseyes>

Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
ignorance and hypocrisy.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

On 6/25/22 09:35, Moondog wrote:
>
> It can be a mixed bag. The other day someone was buying handguns for
> he and his wife. Hios wife works in a marijuana dispensary and
> handles large sums of cash, and was asking if open carry might be
> preferable over concealed carry, which would take longer to get a
> permit.
>
> I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room.
> You can see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight.
> While it should discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the
> biggest threat to take out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody
> guessing. And polite.

Unfortunately, as long as marijuana is federally illegal, any and all
crimes that may occur at a dispensary would likely involve charges
against anyone carrying firearms, including store personnel. Here in
AZ, security is often outside the building, or in an entry area
technically separate from the store area for this reason.

Firearms + Scheduled drugs == increased federal penalties.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Tracker1 to Dumas Walker on Thu Jul 07 2022 01:36 pm

> On 6/24/22 14:10, Dumas Walker wrote:
> >
> > Exactly. I may not have worded it exactly right. I think they
> > believe that law abiding citizens having guns means there are more
> > guns out there for law breaking persons to have access to
> > (whilebreaking the law). Their belief is that we should be willing
> > to give up our guns, or at least have ours all registered, tracked,
> > and restricted (as to what we can own) so that criminals cannot get
> > their hands on them. <rollseyes>
>
> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.
>
> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.
> --
> Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>

Even in the orgianl language of the NFA act of 1934, handguns were intended to
be banned. The problem was even most folk who say they are anti-gun
wouldn't mind owning a handgun to be kept by their bed. An analogy is razor
blades are safer than axes even though it's easier to hide a razor blade and
they can do their of damage if they slice a major artery.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Thu Jul 07 2022 01:40 pm

> On 6/25/22 09:35, Moondog wrote:
> >
> > It can be a mixed bag. The other day someone was buying handguns for
> > he and his wife. Hios wife works in a marijuana dispensary and
> > handles large sums of cash, and was asking if open carry might be
> > preferable over concealed carry, which would take longer to get a
> > permit.
> >
> > I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room.
> > You can see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight.
> > While it should discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the
> > biggest threat to take out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody
> > guessing. And polite.
>
> Unfortunately, as long as marijuana is federally illegal, any and all
> crimes that may occur at a dispensary would likely involve charges
> against anyone carrying firearms, including store personnel. Here in
> AZ, security is often outside the building, or in an entry area
> technically separate from the store area for this reason.
>
> Firearms + Scheduled drugs == increased federal penalties.
> --
> Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>

That may be the case in a civil suit, however there's little or no chances of
a person comitting armed robbery on a dispensary being treated as a
victim.

---
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> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.

Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a "mass
shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed each day by
handguns.


* SLMR 2.1a * If all appears to go well, you missed something...

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1 <=-

> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.

DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
DW> each day by handguns.

Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
obey laws.



... The world is full of surprises, very few of which are pleasant.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.

> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.

I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to someone
who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be resonably intelligent,
yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some of them just think that guns are
scary and we are better off with less of them, but the "criminals don't
obey laws" logic should be equally as scary.


* SLMR 2.1a * Bureaucrats cut red tape--lengthwise.

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.

> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.

DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be
DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
DW> equally as scary.

Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
the actual truth.

The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
able to get treatment for their issues.

Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
example case of complete failure.


... Vote Democrat. It's easier than thinking!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

> DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
> DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
> DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
> DW> equally as scary.

> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
> the actual truth.

No doubt, that is certainly true of the politicians who claim that more
laws will fix the problem. I was thinking more in terms of the voters.

> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.

Yes. I also think there is some disconnect going on with our society. It
used to be, when asked in school what they want to be when they grow up,
younger people would mention some profession. Supposedly, now they are
more likely to want to "be famous." If a kid who wants to be famous is
also one that does not see much hope in life, being famous by doing
something stupid, whether it be drinking bleach on Tik-Tok or shooting up a
school, somehow seems OK to them.

> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.

There have been several shooters this year that "were on (some law
enforcement agency's) radar" but yet were not seen as enough of a threat to
do anything about until it was too late. A family member has an issue with
a stalker. The stalker, after doing a drive-by at their house, apparently
murdered someone in another part of town and got caught for that. The
family member was worried about them being released on house arrest to
await trial. I told them to phone in a tip and suggest the shooter was a
member of the January 6 mob as that seems to be the only thing that these
law enforcement groups care about. Otherwise, you are not enough of a
threat.


* SLMR 2.1a * Make headlines! Use a corduroy pillow.

---
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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
> DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
> DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
> DW> equally as scary.

> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
> the actual truth.

DW> No doubt, that is certainly true of the politicians who claim
DW> that more laws will fix the problem. I was thinking more in
DW> terms of the voters.

Well, I think the voters who vote for such politicians are exactly the
same. They see the passage of any "gun control" legislation as a
"victory" for themselves, as in they feel like they have gained some
control over their fellow citizens who don't feel the same way they do.

> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.

DW> Yes. I also think there is some disconnect going on with our
DW> society. It used to be, when asked in school what they want to
DW> be when they grow up, younger people would mention some
DW> profession. Supposedly, now they are more likely to want to "be
DW> famous." If a kid who wants to be famous is also one that does
DW> not see much hope in life, being famous by doing something
DW> stupid, whether it be drinking bleach on Tik-Tok or shooting up a
DW> school, somehow seems OK to them.

Wow, hadn't even considered that but it makes perfect sense now that you
mention it. What a sad thing that is.

> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.

DW> There have been several shooters this year that "were on (some
DW> law enforcement agency's) radar" but yet were not seen as enough
DW> of a threat to do anything about until it was too late. A family
DW> member has an issue with a stalker. The stalker, after doing a
DW> drive-by at their house, apparently murdered someone in another
DW> part of town and got caught for that. The family member was
DW> worried about them being released on house arrest to await trial.
DW> I told them to phone in a tip and suggest the shooter was a
DW> member of the January 6 mob as that seems to be the only thing
DW> that these law enforcement groups care about. Otherwise, you are
DW> not enough of a threat.

True enough. There are some (many) "mainstream media" outlets that have
shown little else than that issue (Jan 6th) on their daily broadcasts
recently. I mean like all day, with only brief intermissions for any
other news they might think advances their agenda also. It has become
so obvious that these organizations are no longer "news" agencies, but
have become the public relations arm of the masters that they serve.
Generally all of them are in the liberal/Democrat camp. Pathetic.



... Apathy Error: Strike any key...or none, for that matter.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Gamgee to Dumas Walker on Sun Jul 10 2022 07:27 pm

> -=> Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1 <=-
>
> > Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> > they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> > with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> > robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> > typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.
>
> > Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> > ignorance and hypocrisy.
>
> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.
>
> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.
>
>
>
> ... The world is full of surprises, very few of which are pleasant.

Chicago blames northwest Indiana towns such as South Bend for the guns in
chicago. Granted, South Bend has it's own troubles, however the streets do
not flow with blood like Chicago's mayor would make you belive.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Gamgee to Dumas Walker on Mon Jul 11 2022 09:47 pm

> -=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
>
> > DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> > DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> > DW> each day by handguns.
>
> > Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> > strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> > obey laws.
>
> DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
> DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be
> DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
> DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
> DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
> DW> equally as scary.
>
> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
> the actual truth.
>
> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.
>
> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.
>
>
> ... Vote Democrat. It's easier than thinking!

It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority of
shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders. What happened to
the beliefs that life has value?

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-

> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.
>
> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.

Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.

No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
"school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
crazies dominate.

Mo> What happened to the beliefs that life has value?

I wish I knew. Certainly seem to have gone missing.


... It's a chain saw. I always carry one for emergencies.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

> Chicago blames northwest Indiana towns such as South Bend for the guns in
> chicago. Granted, South Bend has it's own troubles, however the streets do
> not flow with blood like Chicago's mayor would make you belive.

During a trip through NW Indiana last fall, I saw a whole bunch of
fireworks stores. I only saw one or two gun stores. This was on US 41 and
US 12, just outside of Chicago and beyond to Michigan City.


* SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

> Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
> Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.

> No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> crazies dominate.

Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a lot of
these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that committed suicide
when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a bunch of other people first.


* SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom

---
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to GAMGEE on Thu Jul 14 2022 04:14 pm

> > No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> > "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> > crazies dominate.
>
> Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a lot of
> these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that committed suicide
> when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a bunch of other people first.
>

If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, then
setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my life
inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill themselves
so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.

The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past the
point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
> Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.

> No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> crazies dominate.

DW> Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a
DW> lot of these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that
DW> committed suicide when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a
DW> bunch of other people first.

Yup. :-(



... The future's uncertain, the end is always near.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Thu Jul 14 2022 04:13 pm

> > Chicago blames northwest Indiana towns such as South Bend for the guns in
> > chicago. Granted, South Bend has it's own troubles, however the streets d
> > not flow with blood like Chicago's mayor would make you belive.
>
> During a trip through NW Indiana last fall, I saw a whole bunch of
> fireworks stores. I only saw one or two gun stores. This was on US 41 and
> US 12, just outside of Chicago and beyond to Michigan City.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom
>
I used to shop at Kempf's in Micigan City. Then there's Cabela's in Hammond.
I recall there was some dude in Michigan City had a milsurp/ prepper/ gun
shop for awhile, then he lost his FFL. He still sold tactical gear, preps
and AR parts, but no lower recievers.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Arelor to Dumas Walker on Thu Jul 14 2022 06:38 pm

> Re: Re: Gun Insurance
> By: Dumas Walker to GAMGEE on Thu Jul 14 2022 04:14 pm
>
> > > No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> > > "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> > > crazies dominate.
> >
> > Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a lot of
> > these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that committed suicide
> > when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a bunch of other people firs
> >
>
> If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, then
> setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my life
> inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
> tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill themsel
> so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.
>
> The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
> schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past th
> point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.
>
> --
> gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
>
I was a misfit in school, and had my share of friends I thought were my
friends. I had real friends as well, but very few. I was smart, but didn't
fall in with the popular cliques, and found myself the target of being
bullied and picked on by older kids. Nice thing about the few friends I had
was they had me covered. Instead of being singled out in a hallway, a jerk
wouldn't bother me if there was someone else with me.

While I hated being treated like crap by bullies, I never had thoughts of
killing anyone. Coming back later in life and making them miserable sounded
more fun. For a millisecond I entertained the thought of burning down the
school. I never would do such a thing, but I realized if i burned it down,
another school would be built or the cliques and other BS in schools would be
relocated elsewhere.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Gamgee to Dumas Walker on Thu Jul 14 2022 08:19 pm

> -=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
>
> > Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
> > Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.
>
> > No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> > "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> > crazies dominate.
>
> DW> Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a
> DW> lot of these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that
> DW> committed suicide when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a
> DW> bunch of other people first.
>
> Yup. :-(
>
>
>
> ... The future's uncertain, the end is always near.

I get the impression that comitting suicide in this case would not
necessarily be about ending it all, but more for the attention factor. When
the person ends it all, they're hoping for the people that didin't notice
them to suddenly wish they knew them, or think they could have stopped this
is they had only reached out. Some of that remorse will happen, then soon
disappear. Other kids will fall under the radar and no one will make a
change.

Going out in a blaze of "glory" garners way more attention. Leave behind a
note or a manifesto, and it will be on the news regardless how poorly written
or illogical it is.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

> If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, then
> setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my life
> inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
> tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill themselve
> so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.

> The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
> schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past the
> point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.

In the case of the Uvalde school shooter, and some others also, they are
not students at the school they shoot up. The Uvalde shooter picked a
school with kids several years younger than he in attendance. I am not
even sure he was still in school but, if he was, it would have been a high
school where kids close to his age attended.


* SLMR 2.1a * Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to ARELOR on Fri Jul 15 2022 03:06 pm

> > If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, the
> > setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my lif
> > inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
> > tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill thems
> > so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.
>
> > The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
> > schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past
> > point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.
>
> In the case of the Uvalde school shooter, and some others also, they are
> not students at the school they shoot up. The Uvalde shooter picked a
> school with kids several years younger than he in attendance. I am not
> even sure he was still in school but, if he was, it would have been a high
> school where kids close to his age attended.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?
>
He was in high school. From what I read, he was an outcast with a learning di
sability and was picked on and had no friends. He had a frined he used to
hang out with until the kid's family moved away. He was in his senior year,
and the school would place pictures of the seniors on the light poles in
town. Somehow his picture was left out. He received teasing about that as
well. Sounds liek the kid had a shitty time in school, but that only
explains why he might have snapped, but doesn't excuse it. he proabably
picked the elementary school because it was an easy target.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1 <=-

DW> @MSGID: <62CB22A4.2278.dove-gun@capitolcityonline.net>
DW> @REPLY: <62C743E1.722.dove-firearms@roughneckbbs.com>
DW> @TZ: c12c
> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.

DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a "mass
DW> shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed each day by
DW> handguns.

Suffice it to say more people are killed by handguns each year than by rifles
of any time.

Suicides account for more firearms related deaths each year than any other.
Rifles of any type are seldom utilized in suicide attempts.

The problem is not the gun. The problem is the cheapening of human life. The
cheapening of human life is a direct reflection of the society in which we
live.

Regards....

... The best way to accelerate a Mac is at 9.8m/s^2
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.

> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.

DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be resonably
DW> intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some of them just
DW> think that guns are scary and we are better off with less of them, but
DW> the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be equally as scary.

The plain and simple truth of the matter is this. Firearms (of ANY type) are
inert, inanimate objects. In and of themselves, they are incapable of any
actions including actions of criminal and violent intent.

Placed in the hands of an evil and malevolent individual, guns are capable of
being used to commit acts of violence. Then again, placed in the hands of a
malevolent individual, fertilizer and kerosene can be used to commit acts of
violence. Placed in the hands of a malevolent individual, castor beans can be
used to commit acts of violence. Placed in the hands of a malevolent
individual a motor vehicle has proven to be able to be used in lethal acts of
violence.

The common thread? The malevolent individual. Perhaps we should concentrate
more on the acts and the intent more than the tools that are used...

Regards...


... Wherever you go, there you are!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

-=> Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-



DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be
DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
DW> equally as scary.

Ga> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
Ga> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
Ga> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
Ga> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
Ga> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but
Ga> that's the actual truth.

Those who the true power behind the push for gun control laws desire one
outcome. They are seeking to disarm the American populace so that they may
increase their power and influence over the general population. The Second
Amendment is the protector of the entire Bill of Rights. Those who would
impose severe gun restrictions upon us are the ones who desire to impose
further limits upon our constitutional rights.

Regards....


... What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind! - Homer S.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ The Lost Chord BBS - Cheyenne, WY

> He was in high school. From what I read, he was an outcast with a learning di
> sability and was picked on and had no friends. He had a frined he used to
> hang out with until the kid's family moved away. He was in his senior year,
> and the school would place pictures of the seniors on the light poles in
> town. Somehow his picture was left out. He received teasing about that as
> well. Sounds liek the kid had a shitty time in school, but that only
> explains why he might have snapped, but doesn't excuse it. he proabably
> picked the elementary school because it was an easy target.

You are right, it does not excuse it. However, if I was one of those kids
that picked on him, I would be rethinking my ways right about now.

As you point out in another message, even if some of the kids do rethink
their ways, it probably won't have a lasting affect. :(


* SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Sat Jul 16 2022 09:53 am

> > He was in high school. From what I read, he was an outcast with a learning di
> > sability and was picked on and had no friends. He had a frined he used to
> > hang out with until the kid's family moved away. He was in his senior year,
> > and the school would place pictures of the seniors on the light poles in
> > town. Somehow his picture was left out. He received teasing about that as
> > well. Sounds liek the kid had a shitty time in school, but that only
> > explains why he might have snapped, but doesn't excuse it. he proabably
> > picked the elementary school because it was an easy target.
>
> You are right, it does not excuse it. However, if I was one of those kids
> that picked on him, I would be rethinking my ways right about now.
>
> As you point out in another message, even if some of the kids do rethink
> their ways, it probably won't have a lasting affect. :(
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom
>
> ---
> þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

The problem with bullying is that it is a tribalistic phenomena. People is known to
reinforce their identity by attacking people who belongs outside to their own group.
This is why if somebody at shcool sticks out as different from the rest, it will be
targetted: the other students will feel a sense of belonging to the classroom by
picking on a perceived outsider.

This can also be seen in workplace abuse, in which people with work ethics different
from the rest of the workers will be picked on. It is usually the peolpe with strong
work ethics that gets targetted, specially if the rest of the group has poor work
ethics.

If the group has clear leaders (and there usually are), the fact one of the leaders
decides to harass a given individual will be taken by the rest of the people as tacit
permission to do the same. This is why if the cool kid in the class starts picking on
somebody, the rest will soon follow.

Why I am saying this? Because this dynamic makes bullies feel subconsciously justified
in doing what they do. If they bully a little kid and his bigger brother shows up and
breaks the bully's face, the bully will feel wronged because he will think the had the
right to be an asshole. If you can find it, I recommend you to watch that documentary
about Little Zangief and the aftermath - Little Zangief was a kid who was bullied in
school, and one day he snaped and broke his bully's leg. When asked if he regreted
being a bully, the bully said "No." Then he looked past the camera, as if watching
somebody give him indications, and said "... I mean, yes."

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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-=> Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be
DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
DW> equally as scary.

Ga> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
Ga> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
Ga> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
Ga> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
Ga> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but
Ga> that's the actual truth.

We> Those who the true power behind the push for gun control laws
We> desire one outcome. They are seeking to disarm the American
We> populace so that they may increase their power and influence over
We> the general population. The Second Amendment is the protector of
We> the entire Bill of Rights. Those who would impose severe gun
We> restrictions upon us are the ones who desire to impose further
We> limits upon our constitutional rights.

Yes, full agreement on that. Many of them don't even bother to try and
hide that fact as their ultimate goal any more.



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Weatherman to Dumas Walker on Sat Jul 16 2022 01:53 am

> -=> Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1 <=-
>
> DW> @MSGID: <62CB22A4.2278.dove-gun@capitolcityonline.net>
> DW> @REPLY: <62C743E1.722.dove-firearms@roughneckbbs.com>
> DW> @TZ: c12c
> > Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> > they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> > with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> > robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> > typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.
>
> > Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> > ignorance and hypocrisy.
>
> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a "mass
> DW> shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed each day by
> DW> handguns.
>
> Suffice it to say more people are killed by handguns each year than by rifle
> of any time.
>
> Suicides account for more firearms related deaths each year than any other.
> Rifles of any type are seldom utilized in suicide attempts.
>
> The problem is not the gun. The problem is the cheapening of human life. T
> cheapening of human life is a direct reflection of the society in which we
> live.
>
> Regards....
>
> ... The best way to accelerate a Mac is at 9.8m/s^2

Agreed. the best way to reduce gun violence is to go after the root of
violence. If you take away the guns by themselves, the violent behavior wil
continue.

Handguns are interesting in that most folk are cool with them existing. I
forgot which country it was, but the epople feared the militarisation of
their police, so their police are prohibited from caryr rifles or submachine
guns. Instead, their special response teams have pistols mounted in chassis
similar to the CAA Roni that give them similar functionality to a rifle or
sub gun.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Sat Jul 16 2022 09:53 am

> > He was in high school. From what I read, he was an outcast with a learnin
> > sability and was picked on and had no friends. He had a frined he used to
> > hang out with until the kid's family moved away. He was in his senior yea
> > and the school would place pictures of the seniors on the light poles in
> > town. Somehow his picture was left out. He received teasing about that a
> > well. Sounds liek the kid had a shitty time in school, but that only
> > explains why he might have snapped, but doesn't excuse it. he proabably
> > picked the elementary school because it was an easy target.
>
> You are right, it does not excuse it. However, if I was one of those kids
> that picked on him, I would be rethinking my ways right about now.
>
> As you point out in another message, even if some of the kids do rethink
> their ways, it probably won't have a lasting affect. :(
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom
>
Along the lines of empathy of students among their peers, I recall there was
always someone who had a crush on someone popular, whether it was the
quiet barely noticable guy in love with cheerleader, or a girl crazy about an
athlete or other popular dude. The attraction would vary from a quiet
observation to what i refer to as stalker crushes, where they either try to
find ways of initiazting contact or even worse, write long crazy letters
about how they were destined to be together. One summer I was hanging out
with a friend who had transferred from another school system, and he had a
friend with him. I had mentioned how early in the day I went to a family
reunion, and they asked if ther were any of my cousins they might've know at
the other school. One of my cousins was the head cheerleader/ homecoming
queen type, and it turned out my buddy's friend had one of those stalker
crushes which ended terribly because a letter he write wasn't taken kindly.

His friend became withdrawn and wouldn't even look at me. I wanted to ask for
more details, but my firend said it was better to let sleeping dogs lay. I
get the impression the response was devastating, and the dude went into
serious depression over the rejection. The due wasn't ugly or creepy at all.
He and my cousin had nothing in common and rolled with different cliques
thaot didn't interact.

My sister had her share of creepy stalker dudes that would come by the house
looking for her. Some were harmless, but others had a serial killer vibe
going on. The easiest way to get them to leave was tell them she is at her
friend's house - the friend whose father was a state trooper. I'm not sure
of my sister would've felt any sadness if something bad happened to them back
then. She is a different person now, and I think she likes the attention. i
noticed after I joined Facebook, she began friending several of my friends
she would've never given the time of day to. Several were brothers and
sisters of existing friends.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

> The problem is not the gun. The problem is the cheapening of human life. The
> cheapening of human life is a direct reflection of the society in which we
> live.

Agreed.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Mmmmmmmm.....doughnuts."

---
þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to WEATHERMAN on Sun Jul 17 2022 08:07 am

> > The problem is not the gun. The problem is the cheapening of human life.
> > cheapening of human life is a direct reflection of the society in which we
> > live.
>
> Agreed.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "Mmmmmmmm.....doughnuts."
>

Agreedx2.

A few weeks ago on a Facebook thread I cited an article from about 10 years ag
o a local 8 year old killed his 4 year old brother over the last bowl of
cereal left in the box. A commenter said "boys will be boys," as if this was
acceptable behavior. Not in my parent's house. Not in my neighborhood would
something like that happen.


---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

> A few weeks ago on a Facebook thread I cited an article from about 10 years ag
> o a local 8 year old killed his 4 year old brother over the last bowl of
> cereal left in the box. A commenter said "boys will be boys," as if this was
> acceptable behavior. Not in my parent's house. Not in my neighborhood would
> something like that happen.

That is a rather callous, desensitized reaction that commenter had, assuming
it was not sarcasm. My parents would not have put up with violent,
agressive behavior, either.


* SLMR 2.1a * "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"

---
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Mon Jul 18 2022 03:56 pm

> > A few weeks ago on a Facebook thread I cited an article from about 10 year
> > o a local 8 year old killed his 4 year old brother over the last bowl of
> > cereal left in the box. A commenter said "boys will be boys," as if this
> > acceptable behavior. Not in my parent's house. Not in my neighborhood wo
> > something like that happen.
>
> That is a rather callous, desensitized reaction that commenter had, assuming
> it was not sarcasm. My parents would not have put up with violent,
> agressive behavior, either.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"
>
The commenter also tried to justify it by saying kids have so much violent
energy that is suppressed, all young boys are time bombs. I think that was
also directed by the race of the children, which was black. That's BS.
Children may have a level of cruelty based on immaturity, but disregard for
life like that has to be observed or taught. I have no idea if these kids
come from a violent home or were abused, or if domestic abuse was present.
That is not behavior anyone I ever grew up with ever displayed.

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Belly wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

Be> Re: Re: Gun Insurance
Be> By: JIMMY ANDERSON to DR. WHAT on Sun Jun 26 2022 01:51 pm

Be> Hi, Jimmy... I think we might know one another in RL.

Be> o
Be> (O)
Be> BeLLy

Hey there! Please, how? :-)

BTW - I normally sign into another BBS, but it's been down, and
I've been waiting for it to come back. Seeing as it's uncertain
when it will (or if), I've decided today to look at others that
I've tried in the past, just to check up on echomail...




... Laugh and the world laughs with you, snore and you sleep alone.
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Final Zone BBS - final-zone.net - finalzone.ddns.net

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.

> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.

DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be resonably
DW> intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some of them just
DW> think that guns are scary and we are better off with less of them, but
DW> the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be equally as scary.

Yeah - don't get me wrong, I enjoy owning and shooting guns and have
ZERO intentions of every putting a round into ANYONE, but at the same
time I carry with the intent of self defense.

BUT - I had a friend say something to the effect of "I don't like
guns - they were designed to kill - I'd rather there not be
any guns" and I honestly agreed with him! If it would prevent
people from hurting other people? I'd be all for it! But making
MY guns illegal while not removing ALL guns (bad guys, military,
our government, other governments) is not the answer. That just
creates a defenseless target...






... Chain Tagline Stolen 6 Times (add one when you steal it)
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
þ Synchronet þ Final Zone BBS - final-zone.net - finalzone.ddns.net

-=> Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-

> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.

Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority of
Mo> shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders. What
Mo> happened to the beliefs that life has value?

THIS! Yes, mental health is AN issue, but not THE issue. When there
is no santity of life, then ANY life is forfeit.

I am a Christian and I believe we are all created in His image. As
image bearers, we have value. If we really were just 'apes in skin'
as evolutionists would have you believe, then what's wrong with the
strong eating the weak?

Life is precious! From the unborn up!




... Hookd on foniks wurkd for mee!
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-=> Arelor wrote to Dumas Walker <=-


Ar> The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact
Ar> that schools are structured as stressful places in which people is
Ar> broken past the point of no return. I never see anybody talking about
Ar> this.

In my (not so) humble opinion, when I was a kid we didn't have school
shootings. What we DID have was the 10 commandments on the wall,
corporal punishment, the Gideons bringing New Testaments to everyone
in Fifth Grade...

We removed those things and now look what we have...




... Frisbyterian: when you die, your soul goes up on the roof
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-=> Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-

Mo> While I hated being treated like crap by bullies, I never had thoughts
Mo> of killing anyone. Coming back later in life and making them miserable
Mo> sounded more fun.

For me, I was bullied as well, and I finally had enough and 'stood up'
for myself. But it was a fight - I had no intentions of really hurting
the guy - I just wanted the bullying to stop. No way did I ever consider
taking anyone's life!

Now that I'm a Christian, I feel bad about people I held a grudge against
for the bullying and abuse, and have actually come to terms with it in the
sense that my failure to forgive was hurting ME, not them...

I actually blogged about it too...

https://jimmylogan.substack.com/p/forgive




... I don't have any solution, but I certainly admire the problem.
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-=> Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-


Mo> Going out in a blaze of "glory" garners way more attention. Leave
Mo> behind a note or a manifesto, and it will be on the news regardless how
Mo> poorly written or illogical it is.

Bonnie and Clyde? They still talk about them!



... Apathy Error: Don't Bother Striking Any Key
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-=> Weatherman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a "mass
DW> shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed each day by
DW> handguns.

We> Suffice it to say more people are killed by handguns each year than by
We> rifles of any time.

We> Suicides account for more firearms related deaths each year than any
We> other. Rifles of any type are seldom utilized in suicide attempts.

We> The problem is not the gun. The problem is the cheapening of human
We> life. The cheapening of human life is a direct reflection of the
We> society in which we live.

Agreed! And unless something has changed, more people are killed each
year by 'fist and foot' than guns anyway...




... <A>bort <R>etry <D>o what I mean!!!
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> BUT - I had a friend say something to the effect of "I don't like
> guns - they were designed to kill - I'd rather there not be
> any guns" and I honestly agreed with him! If it would prevent
> people from hurting other people? I'd be all for it! But making
> MY guns illegal while not removing ALL guns (bad guys, military,
> our government, other governments) is not the answer. That just
> creates a defenseless target...

Indeed it does.

There are some science fiction pieces that tell cautionary tales about
societies giving up their guns, including the militaries of the planet,
only to be invaded by armed visitors from other planets. :)

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Where are you going?

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-=> Jimmy Anderson wrote to Weatherman <=-


DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a "mass
DW> shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed each day by
DW> handguns.

We> Suffice it to say more people are killed by handguns each year than by
We> rifles of any time.

We> Suicides account for more firearms related deaths each year than any
We> other. Rifles of any type are seldom utilized in suicide attempts.

We> The problem is not the gun. The problem is the cheapening of human
We> life. The cheapening of human life is a direct reflection of the
We> society in which we live.

JA> Agreed! And unless something has changed, more people are killed each
JA> year by 'fist and foot' than guns anyway...

JA> ... <A>bort <R>etry <D>o what I mean!!!

Nothing has changed, hand-and-foot still outpaces firearms. And don't forget
that the lowly handgun accounts for far more deaths than that scary and
deadly-looking AR-15 (or ANY rifle forthat matter).


... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
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> Nothing has changed, hand-and-foot still outpaces firearms. And don't forget
> that the lowly handgun accounts for far more deaths than that scary and
> deadly-looking AR-15 (or ANY rifle forthat matter).

I have always suspected that they are going after rifles more lately
because they figured out that their private body guards are more likely to
carry a handgun and they don't want to have to give the body guards up.

"They" in this case being celebrities and politicians.


* SLMR 2.1a * WORK HARDER!... Millions on Welfare depend on YOU!

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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to WEATHERMAN on Mon Jan 09 2023 04:18 pm

> > Nothing has changed, hand-and-foot still outpaces firearms. And don't for
> > that the lowly handgun accounts for far more deaths than that scary and
> > deadly-looking AR-15 (or ANY rifle forthat matter).
>
> I have always suspected that they are going after rifles more lately
> because they figured out that their private body guards are more likely to
> carry a handgun and they don't want to have to give the body guards up.
>
> "They" in this case being celebrities and politicians.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * WORK HARDER!... Millions on Welfare depend on YOU!
>
The celebrities and politicians with armed guards are elitists, and believe
there will be exceptions that will allow their security to carry in airports
and other suposed gun-free zones.

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-=> DUMAS WALKER wrote to WEATHERMAN <=-

DW> @VIA: CAPCITY2
DW> @MSGID: <63BC8861.2382.dove-gun@capitolcityonline.net>
DW> @REPLY: <63BBDEC1.670.dove-firearms@tlcbbs.synchro.net>
> Nothing has changed, hand-and-foot still outpaces firearms. And don't
forget
> that the lowly handgun accounts for far more deaths than that scary and
> deadly-looking AR-15 (or ANY rifle forthat matter).

DW> I have always suspected that they are going after rifles more lately
DW> because they figured out that their private body guards are more likely
DW> to carry a handgun and they don't want to have to give the body guards
DW> up.

DW> "They" in this case being celebrities and politicians.

Well - that, and they have to start somewhere...




... Deja Tue: A feeling that yesterday was Monday ...
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: JIMMY ANDERSON to DUMAS WALKER on Tue Jan 10 2023 01:19 pm

> -=> DUMAS WALKER wrote to WEATHERMAN <=-
>
> DW> @VIA: CAPCITY2
> DW> @MSGID: <63BC8861.2382.dove-gun@capitolcityonline.net>
> DW> @REPLY: <63BBDEC1.670.dove-firearms@tlcbbs.synchro.net>
> > Nothing has changed, hand-and-foot still outpaces firearms. And don't
> forget
> > that the lowly handgun accounts for far more deaths than that scary and
> > deadly-looking AR-15 (or ANY rifle forthat matter).
>
> DW> I have always suspected that they are going after rifles more lately
> DW> because they figured out that their private body guards are more likely
> DW> to carry a handgun and they don't want to have to give the body guards
> DW> up.
>
> DW> "They" in this case being celebrities and politicians.
>
> Well - that, and they have to start somewhere...
>
>
>
>
> ... Deja Tue: A feeling that yesterday was Monday ...

While creating the National Firearms Act of 1934, a complete ban on handguns
was on the list. Other countries followed suit so subjects can only own full
length single shot shotgun or single shot rifles. Resistance to a complete
handgun ban was very strong. I know anti-gun folks who think owning a
handgun for home use is fine, while long guns are terrible. If the firearm ne
ver left the home, size would not be important. The law being put into
effect's emphasis was on concealed firearms carried by criminals, and long gun
s being cut down so they could be carried concealed under long coats.
Suppressors got thrown in not because gangsters owned them. They were more co
ncerned about poachers tresapassing and not getting caught.

---
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Jimmy Anderson to Belly on Thu Jan 05 2023 11:27 am

> Hey there! Please, how? :-)

If WTETA means something to you, then probably... It's been so long now that I
don't recall what sparked the connection!


o
(O)
BeLLy

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-=> Belly wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-

Be> Re: Re: Gun Insurance
Be> By: Jimmy Anderson to Belly on Thu Jan 05 2023 11:27 am

> Hey there! Please, how? :-)

Be> If WTETA means something to you, then probably... It's been so long now
Be> that I don't recall what sparked the connection!

Yeah - I don't remember the conversation - WTETA to me is West Tennessee
Educational Technology Association - I used to be a very active member...




... I didn't believe in reincarnation the last time, either.
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Jimmy Anderson to Belly on Thu Mar 09 2023 05:51 pm

> Be> If WTETA means something to you, then probably... It's been so long now
> Be> that I don't recall what sparked the connection!
>
> Yeah - I don't remember the conversation - WTETA to me is West Tennessee
> Educational Technology Association - I used to be a very active member...

One and the same... Olympic steak house. I remember you playing guitar at at
least one of the picnic meetings.


o
(O)
BeLLy

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-=> BELLY wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

> Be> If WTETA means something to you, then probably... It's been so long now
> Be> that I don't recall what sparked the connection!
>
> Yeah - I don't remember the conversation - WTETA to me is West Tennessee
> Educational Technology Association - I used to be a very active member...

BE> One and the same... Olympic steak house. I remember you playing guitar
BE> at at least one of the picnic meetings.

WOW! Figured it was just a coincedence on the acronym!

Yep, that's me! I still play guitar, but it stays at church most of the time...

So - Belly - and what BBS are you using? And who exactly are you? I am
intrigued! LOL





... They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
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