So you've probably heard about this story:
https://www.pe.com/2019/06/16/man-killed-in-corona-costco-shooting-was-a-gentle-giant-cousin-says/


The cop is not in custody. If this was anyone else, they'd be in jail right now, likely charged with homicide, attempted homicide, and who knows what else. But this guy is out free to roam, because of his job?!?

I know the entire story is not known at this time (argument, assault, mental handicap, or whatever) - but what pisses me off is the immediate change in stature and narrative by the cops once they learned the shooter was one of theirs. They minimize the entire scenario, saying just that 2 others were "injured" (not "shot", as they were) and they took a long time to come out with the fact that the dead man was unarmed. And say it was an argument that resulted in "a shot fired", when all reports are 6-8 shots fired - and clearly the fact that 3 people were shot implies more than one "shot fired".

My wife and I regularly shop at this Costco, often with our kids. We could have been there, very easily, so this is extremely close to home.

Cops, on duty or not, need to be capable of a great amount of restraint. This guy appears to have had a short-fuse and a hair-trigger and should never have been trusted to carry a gun in public (based on the currently known facts).

digital man

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Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
By: Digital Man to All on Sun Jun 16 2019 05:39 pm

DM> I know the entire story is not known at this time (argument, assault,
DM> mental handicap, or whatever) - but what pisses me off is the immediate

I have a rule I follow when I hear a news story, wait 3 day's by then the whole
story should be out, news outlets usually print sensational headlines that most
of the time mislead the reader.

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Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
By: Digital Man to All on Sun Jun 16 2019 05:39 pm

DM> So you've probably heard about this story:
DM> https://www.pe.com/2019/06/16/man-killed-in-corona-costco-shooting-was-a-g

DM> entle-giant-cousin-says/

DM> The cop is not in custody. If this was anyone else, they'd be in jail
DM> right now, likely charged with homicide, attempted homicide, and who knows
DM> what else. But this guy is out free to roam, because of his job?!?

DM> I know the entire story is not known at this time (argument, assault,
DM> mental handicap, or whatever) - but what pisses me off is the immediate
DM> change in stature and narrative by the cops once they learned the shooter
DM> was one of theirs. They minimize the entire scenario, saying just that 2
DM> others were "injured" (not "shot", as they were) and they took a long time
DM> to come out with the fact that the dead man was unarmed. And say it was an
DM> argument that resulted in "a shot fired", when all reports are 6-8 shots
DM> fired - and clearly the fact that 3 people were shot implies more than one
DM> "shot fired".

DM> My wife and I regularly shop at this Costco, often with our kids. We could
DM> have been there, very easily, so this is extremely close to home.

I heard about that over the weekend, though I only saw the headline. It's
pretty scary. And I agree, they shouldn't change the story when they find out
it's a police officer. I think he should be treated like any citizen in this
case, and I'm not even sure it makes much difference if he was off duty or on
duty.

Nightfox

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Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
By: Digital Man to All on Sun Jun 16 2019 05:39 pm

> So you've probably heard about this story: https://www.pe.com/2019/06/16/man

> -killed-in-corona-costco-shooting-was-a-gentle-giant-cousin-says/

> The cop is not in custody. If this was anyone else, they'd be in jail right
> now, likely charged with homicide, attempted homicide, and who knows what


wow that's crazy. we have a cop here who raped a woman he picked up and he only
got 1 year.
they didnt even want to give him that.
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Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
By: Denn to Digital Man on Mon Jun 17 2019 08:10 am

> Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
> By: Digital Man to All on Sun Jun 16 2019 05:39 pm
>
> DM> I know the entire story is not known at this time (argument, assault,
> DM> mental handicap, or whatever) - but what pisses me off is the immediate
>
> I have a rule I follow when I hear a news story, wait 3 day's by then the wh
> story should be out, news outlets usually print sensational headlines that m
> of the time mislead the reader.
>
Sound advice.

Cops are always going to be cops. They arent perfect and some are corrupt.
But they are a brotherhood and they look to protect each other, and sometimes,
they get it wrong or do it in a less than honorable way.

Overall tho, most cops are good and we need them and should respect them.


Thanks,
Zombie Mambo

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-=> Digital Man wrote to All <=-

DM> Cops, on duty or not, need to be capable of a great amount of
DM> restraint. This guy appears to have had a short-fuse and a hair-trigger
DM> and should never have been trusted to carry a gun in public (based on
DM> the currently known facts).

I'd love to hear about a law enforcement agency teaching de-escalation
techniques. Seems like a lost art. If anything, the outliers people
see on the 'net appear needlessly escalated, by the police.

It's scary to think that my son is going to be driving soon and if
pulled over, need to make decisions that could change his life, for a
traffic stop.



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-=> On 06-17-19 06:47, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Digital Man <=-

pF> I'd love to hear about a law enforcement agency teaching de-escalation
pF> techniques. Seems like a lost art. If anything, the outliers people
pF> see on the 'net appear needlessly escalated, by the police.

Cops here use guns as their very last resort, and any police using firearms on
members of the public tends to generate big news stories, especially if it's a
fatality. Around 20 years ago, there was a period with a high number of
incidents involving police firearm use, and that sparked an inquiry and led to
the adoption of capsi

-=> On 06-17-19 06:47, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Digital Man <=-

pF> I'd love to hear about a law enforcement agency teaching de-escalation
pF> techniques. Seems like a lost art. If anything, the outliers people
pF> see on the 'net appear needlessly escalated, by the police.

Cops here use guns as their very last resort, and any police using firearms on
members of the public tends to generate big news stories, especially if it's a
fatality. Around 20 years ago, there was a period with a high number of
incidents involving police firearm use, and that sparked an inquiry and led to
the adoption of capsicum spray and tasers as non lethal alternatives.

pF> It's scary to think that my son is going to be driving soon and if
pF> pulled over, need to make decisions that could change his life, for a
pF> traffic stop.

I've always been one to engage with the police and treat them as people in the
conversation. As it turns out, most of my traffic stops in my younger days
were because of my ham radio hobby (and the resulting antennas on the car).
Cops were curious, and wanted to know what I had in the car, so I'd indulge
their curiosity and have a chat. And as I was legally licensed, I knew I had
nothing to worry about.

These days, it seems a similarly equipped car without probationary plates
attracts less curiosity. Traffic stops nowadays are routine random breath
tests - again, nothing to worry about, I hardly drink at the best of times and
make it a point not to drink then drive. I usually thank them for getting the
drunks off the road. :)


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-=> On 06-19-19 13:21, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Ni> A while ago, I witnessed a 15 or 16(?) year old driver get into a car
Ni> accident, and I heard him say he didn't have his license. He was the
Ni> only driver in the car, and he ran a stop sign and hit another car.
Ni> I'm sure his parents were furious about that..


Ouch, poor kid, that would be a hefty fine here (for running the stop sign),
and possible further penalties for the accident, depending on the circumstances
and outcome. Not the best way to learn to obey road rules. :(


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Re: Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 2019 09:13 am

Ni>> A while ago, I witnessed a 15 or 16(?) year old driver get into a
Ni>> car accident, and I heard him say he didn't have his license. He
Ni>> was the only driver in the car, and he ran a stop sign and hit
Ni>> another car. I'm sure his parents were furious about that..

Vk> Ouch, poor kid, that would be a hefty fine here (for running the stop
Vk> sign), and possible further penalties for the accident, depending on the
Vk> circumstances and outcome. Not the best way to learn to obey road rules.
Vk> :(

He shouldn't have been driving alone without a license, either. I'm sure there
was a fine for that, and I'm not sure how insurance here works in that
situation either. Where I am, if you don't have a license but have a learner's
permit, there must be a licensed driver at least a certain age (18, maybe?) in
the car with the driver. I don't know if he had his learner's permit..

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jun 20 2019 09:11 am

Vk> These days, it seems a similarly equipped car without probationary plates
Vk> attracts less curiosity. Traffic stops nowadays are routine random breath
Vk> tests - again, nothing to worry about, I hardly drink at the best of times
Vk> and make it a point not to drink then drive. I usually thank them for
Vk> getting the drunks off the road. :)

I suppose it's good for them to do that. Here, I don't think they do random
breath tests - I think the police would only stop a driver if they were
obviously driving irratically, posing potential danger to other drivers and
people around them.

I've never been in the habit of drinking alcoholic beverages. I might only
have just a few drinks a year. That's mainly because I've never found any
alcoholic beverages I really like, and most of the drinks I tried early on made
me feel sick, similar to having a cold. I think the types of drinks that make
me feel like that seem to be beer or similar (Mike's Hard Lemonade, etc.), and
other things like wine and liqueurs don't make me feel bad like that. I've
just tended to shy away from alcoholic beverages in general.

Nightfox

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-=> On 06-19-19 17:12, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Ni> He shouldn't have been driving alone without a license, either. I'm

If he didn't have one at all, that's correct, another big fine here. And once
you've obtained your license, you have to carry it with you when you're
riving.

Ni> sure there was a fine for that, and I'm not sure how insurance here
Ni> works in that situation either. Where I am, if you don't have a

Well, I suspect insurance wouldn't cover him, Insurance companies are pretty
picky about who's driving. Here, we also have "no fault compulsory third
party", which is paid as part of your car registration, but covers ALL road
users for road related injury, regardless of who's at fault. The CTP does not
cover property damage, you have to insure for that yourself privately.

Ni> license but have a learner's permit, there must be a licensed driver at
Ni> least a certain age (18, maybe?) in the car with the driver. I don't
Ni> know if he had his learner's permit..

Same here too.

The confusing term was "didn't have his license", which is actually ambiguous,
"unlicensed" would have been 100% clear, because not being in possession of
one's license while on the road is also an offence here (i.e. leaving it at
home).


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-=> On 06-19-19 17:21, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Vk> These days, it seems a similarly equipped car without probationary plates
Vk> attracts less curiosity. Traffic stops nowadays are routine random breath
Vk> tests - again, nothing to worry about, I hardly drink at the best of times
Vk> and make it a point not to drink then drive. I usually thank them for
Vk> getting the drunks off the road. :)

Random breath tests have been a thing here for decades. Most well known are
the so-called "booze buses", which also contain the necessary instruments for
an official reading, which can be used on charges. Over the last 10 or so
years, they have been doing drug tests as well, for cannabis, meth and ecstasy.
Surprisingly, despite the amount of random testing done, I haven't been tested
for drugs yet. My only concern is false positives in the screening tests, but
the lab blood test used for evidence should clear that up. I did see a young
guy on one of the reality shows that follow cops around test positive to both
the roadside and second screening tests, but the lab test cleared him of any
drugs. Never found out what caused those 2 false positives.

Ni> I suppose it's good for them to do that. Here, I don't think they do
Ni> random breath tests - I think the police would only stop a driver if
Ni> they were obviously driving irratically, posing potential danger to
Ni> other drivers and people around them.

Yeah it's proactive policing. I'm all for it, if it improves road safety.

Ni> I've never been in the habit of drinking alcoholic beverages. I might
Ni> only have just a few drinks a year. That's mainly because I've never
Ni> found any alcoholic beverages I really like, and most of the drinks I

From a taste point of view, I would make a good alcoholic, as I do like the
taste of a lot of alcoholic drinks. However, age (and wanting to sleep better)
and sporiing interests have combined to really cut my drinking down from
"light" (a few drinks on a Saturday night) to almost not drinking. Like you, I
now drink alcohol only a few times per year.

Ni> tried early on made me feel sick, similar to having a cold. I think the
Ni> types of drinks that make me feel like that seem to be beer or similar
Ni> (Mike's Hard Lemonade, etc.), and other things like wine and liqueurs
Ni> don't make me feel bad like that. I've just tended to shy away from
Ni> alcoholic beverages in general.

In the long term, that's a good thing. :)


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Re: Re: Off-duty cop shoots 3 unarmed shoppers at my neighborhood Costco
By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 2019 11:07 am

Vk> Well, I suspect insurance wouldn't cover him, Insurance companies are
Vk> pretty picky about who's driving. Here, we also have "no fault compulsory
Vk> third party", which is paid as part of your car registration, but covers
Vk> ALL road users for road related injury, regardless of who's at fault. The
Vk> CTP does not cover property damage, you have to insure for that yourself
Vk> privately.

That sounds similar to some insurance companies here. In recent years, I've
been hearing some insurance companies here are attached to the car rather than
the driver (I believe).

Vk> The confusing term was "didn't have his license", which is actually
Vk> ambiguous, "unlicensed" would have been 100% clear, because not being in
Vk> possession of one's license while on the road is also an offence here
Vk> (i.e. leaving it at home).

The driver I had mentioned earlier, I had the impression he meant he was
unlicensed.. He was fairly young too, maybe 16 or maybe even 15, which is
below the minimum age to have a license (16 here).

Nightfox

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-=> On 06-20-19 09:34, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Ni> That sounds similar to some insurance companies here. In recent years,
Ni> I've been hearing some insurance companies here are attached to the car
Ni> rather than the driver (I believe).

The driver is a pretty important factor for insurance companies here. Premiums
skyrocket for young drivers, or those with a bad record.

Ni> The driver I had mentioned earlier, I had the impression he meant he
Ni> was unlicensed.. He was fairly young too, maybe 16 or maybe even 15,
Ni> which is below the minimum age to have a license (16 here).

Fair enough. I know the minimum driving age in the US is younger than it is
here (18 here, 17 in other states).


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